Simviation Forums

Flight 14
04-23-95

1986 C-172P
TEB
Local

2500 SCT; wind 340/10; 60F

0.9 dual
1 landing

"Ground reference maneuvers, intro to T.O and landing"

It's a beautiful flying day, though a bit breezy. M. decides we will keep it local and work on ground reference maneuvers.
I have my materials set up right today, so I won't be fumbling with them in flight. But the airplane's checklist is not with the clipboard... I do a long preflight on 6FR without the checklist, then go inside to get the checklist and double-check each item.
I make a point to religiously follow the in-flight checklist today... I'm learning that everything goes more smoothly that way.

Takeoff from 24 is fair- a little hunting as we roll, but I establish the correct crab as we climb off the runway.
This lesson is much like the last, but M. adds a new task: a rectangular pattern over oblong Lake DeForrest. Another difference is that he has told me he will keep quiet today, and more or less just observe. That is a welcome treat...
I do well on my own. The wind and slight turbulence keep things interesting, but it's no big deal. M. has few comments... he's watching me now; evaluating my progress.
Callup and approach are routine as the flight ends, but again I fail to juggle attitude and power correctly, and I'm too high on final. My landing is... not my best, to say the least.
Oh well... landings are not so dangerous as takeoffs, but they are not easy!
the plan now is to wait for a calmer day to visit Lincoln Park.

Next: Flight 15

Oh, the memories keep floating to the surface  :)

I don't want to impose a sneak preview, but you're getting to that point in the training where I got smugly confident and while managing a stiff X-wind perfectly, I got rudder-pedal dislexia during the flare and side-loaded a landing to the point where it made me question if I was up to this piloting stuff  :-[

( We won't talk about what happens to nervous, student pilot when he holds too much X-wind take-off correction, right into rotation     )

I got rudder-pedal dislexia during the flare

Not surprising.........if only they didn't installed the yaw control backwards with respect to how the other two axis work..........

When you want to pitch down, you push the stick and the nose moves AWAY from the input, as it drops.....
When you want the wings to roll to the right, you push the stick right and the right wing drops AWAY from the input - same as the pitch....
Here is the problem......when you want to yaw to the right, you push the right pedal and the nose moves TOWARDS the direction of the input.........not AWAY from it.........

Not surprising.........if only they didn't installed the yaw control backwards with respect to how the other two axis work..........

When you want to pitch down, you push the stick and the nose moves AWAY from the input, as it drops.....
When you want the wings to roll to the right, you push the stick right and the right wing drops AWAY from the imput - same as the pitch....
Here is the problem......when you want to yaw to the right, you push the right pedal and the nose moves TOWARDS the direction of the input.........not AWAY from it.........

Look at it another way. Move the control in the direction you want to go.

This would be fine Doug, if only the other rudder pedal didn't move when you push on the first one......
the resultant perpendicular vector between both feet is the cause of confusion.....its no different when you ride a bicycle slowly, the right handlebar moves forward and the left goes backward when you turn left.....if you push on the left side, the bike turns right..........most people have become accustomed to this manner of control, long before some people re-learn a different way so they can control a plane....

I've never understood it.......I can manage it in the cockpit, but feel supremely confident that if the rudder pedals worked backwards to how the are arranged now, there would be a much shorter learning curve for yaw control........... 8-)

I've never understood it.......I can manage it in the cockpit, but feel supremely confident that if the rudder pedals worked backwards to how the are arranged now, there would be a much shorter learning curve for yaw control........... 8-)

Well Ken, I'm not sure when the current system was standardised but it's been in use all over the world for something like 90 years. They're not likely to change it now. All the time you think of it as being wrong or unnatural you're bound to suffer from confusion or Brett's "rudder-pedal dyslexia" at some point. Maybe I'm unusual but it never confused me.

A few people have come out with alternative control systems over the years but they never caught on. The Chrislea Ace is one example & it originally had no rudder pedals at all. The complicated control yoke movements only seem to have made sense to the chap that designed it. Most that he did manage to sell had rudder pedals retro-fitted.

First I must appologize to Sean for apparently hi-jacking his thread..........sorry pal....

[quote]First I must appologize to Sean for apparently hi-jacking his thread..........sorry pal....

First I must appologize to Sean for apparently hi-jacking his thread..........sorry pal....   I did read your post and appreciate your sharing it with us......thanks !  ;D

Pffft! Forget it, pal... I'm a notorious thread hijacker.

I am annoyed, though,  that you're giving me a headache with all this technical talk about yaw control... "step on the ball" works fine for me, always has.  ;)

Of course one doesn't look at the ball when flaring or rotating, but the other intuitive analogy that's always worked for me is to think of it like riding a tricycle... when you turn, the opposite foot goes forward.
Or maybe you never had a tricycle? Poor thing...  :'(

First I must appologize to Sean for apparently hi-jacking his thread..........sorry pal....   I did read your post and appreciate your sharing it with us......thanks !  ;D

Pffft! Forget it, pal... I'm a notorious thread hijacker.

I am annoyed, though,  that you're giving me a headache with all this technical talk about yaw control... "step on the ball" works fine for me, always has.  ;)

Of course one doesn't look at the ball when flaring or rotating, but the other intuitive analogy that's always worked for me is to think of it like riding a tricycle... when you turn, the opposite foot goes forward.
Or maybe you never had a tricycle? Poor thing...  :'(

Speaking of rudder pedals, as I re-read this journal entry, I think I was wandering while rolling simply because I didn't quite have a feel yet for the 172...

I found a very interesting article here. http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/09924/sample/9780521809924ws.pdf

According to para 1.7 on page 15 Louis Bleriot is to blame for the rudder being the way it is today. Probably a simple case of the easiest & most direct routing for the rudder control cables. Apparently Igor Sikorsky agreed with Ken & thought the Bleriot system worked backwards. Sikorsky crossed the rudder cables on all his aircraft to make them steer like bicycles. Rather confusing I would think.

Ummm.. Sean, does this mean we aren't gonna get to see the journal entry from the day you had pedal dislexia

Ummm.. Sean, does this mean we aren't gonna get to see the journal entry from the day you had pedal dislexia  

I had it from day one. I mean, even the first attempt at taxiing was awkward. I just pictured a little go-cart I made as a kid where the front "axel" was a 2X4 with lawn-mower wheels on either end; mounted to the "frame" at a pivot-point and my feet would set on either side of the pivot.



I never did have it again, in flight or landing..  that flare was TRUE dislexia.. as in.. I intended, visualized, KNEW to push one pedal and ended up on the other.. I was in the middle of managing a X-wind, so there was no doubt which pedal did what..  :-[  (a mere brain fart)

Ah, yes... the go-cart analogy. I see you had a proper American upbringing... my dream was to actually to put a lawnmower engine on my go-cart, but I had to settle for a sort of kamikaze soap box thing that my brother and I used to run down our driveway, which was pitched at 30 degrees or thereabouts. Not steering that thing properly meant barrelling into the garage (or the divider between the two bays) at about 40 mph.

Sorry to disappoint you, but other than forgetting  in a Cub in the air the one time I had the stick in one (months after my first intro flight), I've never been confused. Forgotten to push it, yes...  ::)

But never hit the wrong one.

[quote][quote]First I must appologize to Sean for apparently hi-jacking his thread..........sorry pal....