Lufthansa orders 20 updated 747s

[KDSM]

Boeing 1 Airbus 0

[Papa9571]

Doesn't it seem odd that one of the launch customers for the A380 is now the first customer for the passenger version of the 747-8?

Kinda gives Boeing an opening and forces Airbus to keep their discounts in place to sell the A380. And it reduces the number of A380's they will be able to sell.

It also hurt when Airbus canceled the freighter version of th A380.  Things don't look so rosy for Airbus right now do they?

[Jakemaster]

I've said it before and Ill say it again...the 787 should be nicknamed the Airbus killer.

The 747-8 and 777F should also be given proper names...but I haven't thought of any yet.

[DaveSims]

Actually the 787 was made for more of an economical hauler, kinda like the early 737's were originally designed for.  At least thats what it started out to be.  But the A380 I think was a pipe dream, someone wanted to shock the world, but in the airline industry, that isn't the brightest thing in the world.  Plus with Airbus's current financial and scheduling troubles, I think it is a dying project.

[Jakemaster]

The 787 is not competing with the A380, well at least not directly.

The problem is Airbus focused on quantity not quality.  They figured that airlines wanted to shove as many people as possible into one plane to get them really far, while Boeing figured that airlines would want more economica, fuel effecient aircraft.  

Basically with the 787 Boeing is going to get most of the airlines that previously operated 757s, 767s, and I'm sure many of the current operators of the 777.  Not only that, but the 787 will probably steal some sales of the A330 and possibly even the A340.

Then, in a knockout blow to Airbus, Boeing decided to update the main sector that Airbus has quickly been gaining, the heavies.  Boeing's 747 is a great aircraft and has been very successful, but it is getting outdated and being replaced by A340s and the A380 was intended to be sold to airlines with the 747 that wanted to get replacements.  The 747-8 is essentially the same plane only it makes use of technologies developed since the first 747 to make it a much better aircraft.

Airbus still had a chance, but because they are doing a terrible job with the A380 they are quickly losing ground on Boeing.  They are taking way too long to deliver the A380, and at this rate the 787 will be in the air before any airlines take full order of the A380, and its possible that some airlines will begin receiving their orders of 787s before others have their A380 orders filled.

Meanwhile, Embraer is dominating the regional jet circuit and their E-Jet series is gaining popularity.  With Boeing and Airbus focusing more on long range aircraft such as the 787 and the A350, Embraer now has a chance to become a serious competitor for the shorter routes currently served by the 737 series and the A319/20/21.  With a little more improvement and little more time in the market, the E-Jets will become more and more popular and sooner than we know it they will be replacing airlines aging 737 and A320 fleets.

If I was to predict the future, I would say in about 10 years, around the time the 787 and A350 are fully operational, the airline industry will be a lot different.  Boeing will be focusing more on improving the 787, 777, and finishing the 747-8.  If the A380 continues its current path, then Airbus will be fighting to get back what it once had and struggling to keep up with Boeing, trying to sell the A350 and make up for the losses incurred by cancelled orders of the A380.  Embraer will make a move and become the leader in short range aircraft with the E-190, 195, and possible future models of the E-Jet series.

So in conclusion, Boeing is looking good, Airbus is looking bad, and Embraer is one to keep an eye out for.

[dcunning30]

That's a very good analysis Jake.

I also read an Airbus customer considered the A350-XWB a pipe-dream.  If that's the case, Airbus's expected competition to the 787 may be non-existent.

[C]

Ahhhh, the Airbus v. Boeing (How great are Boeing!) debate again...


...what a surprise (with the usual suspects).

Anyway, haven't Lufthansa traditionally operated a very mixed Boeing/Airbus fleet, so this is hardly surprising...


YAWN!

Are we going to have a thread like this every time someone orders a Boeing...

[beaky]

I'm just happy that my favorite jetliner silhouette will be seen flying for quite a few more years... maybe eventually I'll get to ride in one.  ;D

[Jakemaster]

That's a very good analysis Jake.

[smiley=dankk2.gif]

Just to make sure I'm clear, I in no way am saying 'Boeing good, Airbus bad', I am just saying from a business strategy standpoint...you read my post (I hope)

And Charlie, its not surprising that they are buying some 747s, its that they are buying TWENTY of them even though they already have orders for the A380.  Its not like they are completely stepping away from airbus, they've also placed orders for a few more A346s, but to buy 20 new 747s when you are still waiting for your A380s is a bit of a shock.

[C]

And Charlie, its not surprising that they are buying some 747s, its that they are buying TWENTY of them even though they already have orders for the A380.  Its not like they are completely stepping away from airbus, they've also placed orders for a few more A346s, but to buy 20 new 747s when you are still waiting for your A380s is a bit of a shock.

That was my point of mentioning that they operate a very mixed fleet already . I wasn't pointing the finger at you anyway...

[KDSM]

Are we going to have a thread like this every time someone orders a Boeing...

Heck yes

[Nexus]

That's a very good analysis Jake.

[smiley=dankk2.gif]

Just to make sure I'm clear, I in no way am saying 'Boeing good, Airbus bad', I am just saying from a business strategy standpoint...you read my post (I hope)

And Charlie, its not surprising that they are buying some 747s, its that they are buying TWENTY of them even though they already have orders for the A380.

[chornedsnorkack]

So Boeing 747-800 now has an airline customer. Lufthansa.

The length is settled at 76,3 m, which is 5,5 m stretch and longer than A340-600 (which LH also buys) at 75,3 m.

What is the plane supposed to be like?

Boeing 747-400 can have 624 seats inside - 539 on main deck, as Boeing airport planning manuals show, and 85 on upper deck. Corsair actually has 589, and ANA once had 594.

Any stretch would bring main deck capacity over 550. Does -800 have a sixth pair of main deck doors? Where?

4 m stretch of upper deck instead of 2 m previously offered means you could have 5 extra rows on upper deck. Adding 30 seats means 115 seats. So, extra pair of upper deck exits needed as well.

Where is the extra window row above stairs?

LH plans attic galleys. Does it mean doors in rear upper deck for service?

[Jakemaster]

That's a very good analysis Jake.

[smiley=dankk2.gif]

Just to make sure I'm clear, I in no way am saying 'Boeing good, Airbus bad', I am just saying from a business strategy standpoint...you read my post (I hope)

And Charlie, its not surprising that they are buying some 747s, its that they are buying TWENTY of them even though they already have orders for the A380.

[chornedsnorkack]

[quote]
Regarding the E-Jets, I know they are regional jets but I thought they had pretty good range?