Avro or Vickers?

[Mynameisnemo]

last night i stumbled across an old issue (2years old) of Rapide (north west aviation magazine) which had a very interesting article about the Lancaster.

In the first paragraph of the article it says that "the lancaster of the BBMF was built at Avro's shadow plant in broughton by Vickers Armstrong in 1945".

little bit of history about this particular aircraft:
"PA474 was built in Chester in mid-1945 and was earmarked for Tiger Force in the Far East. However, the war with Japan ended before she could take part in any hostilities and she was assigned to Photographic Reconnaissance duties with 82 Squadron in East and South Africa.  On the return to the UK she was loaned out and used as a Drone for a short while before being used as a testbed for the Laminar Flow wing and in 1964 she was adopted by the AHB (air historical branch) but before she could make the flight to hendon she had to have a CofA granted (hadn't been flying for over 3 years prior to this) and she took off and landed at hendon."

"in 1973 PA474 joined the BBMF and then two years later was adopted by the City Of Lincoln (another nickname for her is the City Of Lincoln Lancaster).  PA474 was named City of Lincoln in recognition of the role Lincoln and in particular Lincolnshire played in WWII.
In 2000, PA474 was renamed Micky the Moocher and given 61 Squadron markings in honour of Micky the Moocher.

61 Squadron were based at RAF Skellingthorpe, just outside Lincoln.

The original Mickey the Moocher EE176 was one of only 35 Lancasters to have flown and survived in excess of 100 missions. Mickey the Moocher is believed to have survived somewhere between 115 and 128 missions.

Mickey the Moocher survived the war, only to then be unceremoniously assigned to the scrap heap."

so would this make it a Vickers Lancaster or an Avro one then?

Nemo................

[C]

It would make it an Avro Lancaster...

Lancs (as were many aeroplanes) were made by several companies including Metropolitan Vickers, Armstrong Whitworth and Austin (the now well known ex-Rover plant at Longbridge). Sites included Chester, Chadderton, Woodford, Longbridge, and for Spitfire lover, the current Jaguar site at Castle Bromwich. The were also manufactured in Canada...

The were always Avro Lancasters though...

[ozzy72]

Don't forget that Supermarine were owner by Vickers! So were Spitfires Vickers? They were also built at several other locations owned by various companies...
Hurricanes were built in the UK and Canada...
Basically I go by whoever designed it "made it" even if it was thrown together elsewhere. A Spitfire is a Supermarine product, a Lancaster an Avro product, a Hurricane a Hawker etc.
The only exception is the Li-2! Now there is an incredible example of reverse engineering And not a cent paid for any model made

[Hagar]

Don't forget that Supermarine were owner by Vickers! So were Spitfires Vickers?

Partly. It's offically the Vickers Supermarine Spitfire as you well know.
The first prototype flew on 5 March 1936 (just over 70 years ago) from Eastleigh piloted by Vickers' chief test pilot Joseph "Mutt" Summers. http://k5054.com/

After heavy bombing of the Itchen & Woolston works during 1940, Spitfire production was dispersed over a wide area of the South Coast. It was eventually spread over sixty-five different units that between them built over 85,000 aircraft. Many of these were unlikely places like high-street shops & garages. The shadow factory at Castle Bromwich, Birmingham (previously the Morris car factory) produced 11694 Spitfires of all marks including Seafires & also 305 Lancasters.

The only exception is the Li-2! Now there is an incredible example of reverse engineering And not a cent paid for any model made

I understood the Li-2 was oficially built under licence although payment might not have been made. I think the Tu-4 is a more remarkable example of true reverse engineering. http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStories/03.03shortstories/03.03.10contss.htm

[ozzy72]

I always thought the Soviets got a load of Daks on lend-lease and reverse engineered 'em to make the Li-2 Doug? I might be wrong of course and would be prepared to bow to your superior knowledge in these matters....
As for Spitfires.... well it is a kind of religion with me as you well know. I was just being pedantic.... think it is time to get back to shooting things down

[C]

Don't forget that Supermarine were owner by Vickers! So were Spitfires Vickers? They were also built at several other locations owned by various companies...

Yes, elementary Mark, every Spitfire was a Vickers Supermarine Spitfire. Vickers bought Supermarine in 1927 IIRC...

As for Lusinov's Li-2. I think it was legit... The Tu-4 certainly was not!

[ozzy72]

I always thought the Li-2 wasn't legit... I'll go and investigate.
I do know the history of Supermarine by the way... I was just being pedantic

[C]

I do know the history of Supermarine by the way... I was just being pedantic

I know! Sorry!

And why did I write 1937? I meant 1927!