Simviation Forums

I find it quite amazing, after all the “wrong engine shut down” accidents and now this, that aircraft do not have cameras fitted to enable cockpit crews to see the wings:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... y-landing/

Didn’t any of the passengers notice?

Quote:
"....But the airline said the wing was not related to the alert and the missing piece did not affect the plane’s ability to fly."
Unquote.

..I love adding the phrase; "Trust us", after a statement like that!

Paul...trust me!... .... ...!

Fozzer wrote:Quote:
"....But the airline said the wing was not related to the alert and the missing piece did not affect the plane’s ability to fly."
Unquote.

!

Yes , the wing "tip" is not necessary to actually create the lift that is needed to fly the airplane. It is there for other good reasons but if it is missing you can still fly safely to an Airport.

Indeed. It was an oil problem that necessitated the return. The wingtip was hangar rash and an outstanding repair.

Indeed. It was an oil problem that necessitated the return. The wingtip was hangar rash and an outstanding repair.

So what kind of dumbass passenger would board a 500mph aircraft, bound for Cuba, with part of its wing missing? And what kind of dingbat pilot would even attempt such a flight? Hangar rash??? Yeah, right! – Like driving a car with its fender ripped off is just “garage rash.” Try that excuse on Mr Plod when you get pulled over for it!

Sinkrate wrote:

Indeed. It was an oil problem that necessitated the return. The wingtip was hangar rash and an outstanding repair.

So what kind of dumbass passenger would board a 500mph aircraft, bound for Cuba, with part of its wing missing? And what kind of dingbat pilot would even attempt such a flight? Hangar rash??? Yeah, right! – Like driving a car with its fender ripped off is just “garage rash.” Try that excuse on Mr Plod when you get pulled over for it!

It's obviously an item which can be cleared for flight - wingtips, certainly on a metal wing, generally aren't going to be structural and tend to be frangible. If it was anything else they wouldn't fly, as this isn't a tin-pot airline from an economically disadvantaged country. The only penalty would be for the airline who'd be paying the premium for the increase in fuel burn.

C wrote:

Sinkrate wrote:

Indeed. It was an oil problem that necessitated the return. The wingtip was hangar rash and an outstanding repair.

So what kind of dumbass passenger would board a 500mph aircraft, bound for Cuba, with part of its wing missing? And what kind of dingbat pilot would even attempt such a flight? Hangar rash??? Yeah, right! – Like driving a car with its fender ripped off is just “garage rash.” Try that excuse on Mr Plod when you get pulled over for it!

It's obviously an item which can be cleared for flight - wingtips, certainly on a metal wing, generally aren't going to be structural and tend to be frangible. If it was anything else they wouldn't fly, as this isn't a tin-pot airline from an economically disadvantaged country. The only penalty would be for the airline who'd be paying the premium for the increase in fuel burn.

As an A&P mechanic who has worked for a major airline I can tell you that the "missing" wing tip is NOT a "Cleared For Flight" type item or as referred to by the FAA, an MEL item
(MEL = Minimum Equipment List). And it would not be on any "outstanding repair" sort of list either.

Hawkeye07 wrote:As an A&P mechanic who has worked for a major airline I can tell you that the "missing" wing tip is NOT a "Cleared For Flight" type item or as referred to by the FAA, an MEL item
(MEL = Minimum Equipment List). And it would not be on any "outstanding repair" sort of list either.

Ok...

Care to explain then why the aircraft's been flying passengers around for over a month without the left wingtip? For info, the video below was shot in late May.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egrNVmfAIZA


Not that I know anything about aviation, or big aeroplanes, or anything technical.

C wrote:

Hawkeye07 wrote:As an A&P mechanic who has worked for a major airline I can tell you that the "missing" wing tip is NOT a "Cleared For Flight" type item or as referred to by the FAA, an MEL item
(MEL = Minimum Equipment List). And it would not be on any "outstanding repair" sort of list either.

Ok...
Care to explain then why the aircraft's been flying passengers around for over a month without the left wingtip? For info, the video below was shot in late May.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egrNVmfAIZA
Not that I know anything about aviation, or big aeroplanes, or anything technical.

First, let me correct myself... It's not the MEL the wing tip would be listed on but rather the "CDL" which is the Configuration Deviation List. When I worked at Northwest we had the first A330s based in Detroit and the CDL was very tight. The operator can use stricter parameters than the manufacturer but never more lenient. So missing wingtips were a no fly item at NWA.

Now I did some more research on Thomas Cook Airlines and they do indeed have a much "looser" CDL according to some stories I read (accuracy unknown). But I did run into some confusion regarding the length of time the wing tip was missing. Look at the two pictures below... supposedly the same aircraft was involved in the turn back and the hangar rash episodes. The registration number which was reportedly involved in the turn back is clearly shown on the blue A330. So the yellow aircraft came from where? The pictures don't have any dates on them but it does seem to me to call into question exactly which aircraft, if either, has been without a wing tip for 6 weeks? so how accurate is the info on how long it's been with out the wing tip? Beats me and I couldn't find a way to verify it. Any ideas?

By the way... here's another bit of info I came across in my search...A passenger watched the tape being applied PRIOR to the flight.

I'd suggest it's been repainted. Re-branding, particularly for advertising, is frequent on European carriers.

As for an engineer/rigger checking the repair: I'd suggest that's probably quite good practice. I'd also put no reliability on a photo posted by a passenger purporting something to be happening.

C wrote:I'd suggest it's been repainted. Re-branding, particularly for advertising, is frequent on European carriers.

As for an engineer/rigger checking the repair: I'd suggest that's probably quite good practice. I'd also put no reliability on a photo posted by a passenger purporting something to be happening.

I sort of lean towards the "I believe the Pax" in this case. I've had to patch several DC-9 leading edges with aluminium tape over the years. Those repairs were quite temporary and had to be inspected during each overnight inspection which usually occurred every three or four days. Never taped a whole wing tip though. One nice thing about working on the flight line is that the same aircraft would rotate through your hub and you'd get to know the individual aircraft and be aware of what to keep an eye on.

I was talking to a Capt one day while he was in between flights on the same aircraft after he noticed my baseball cap said "Duct Tape Pro" on it. I told him I had just found a supply of clear Duct Tape and now we mechanics could make repairs he would never see. He laughed and said he was going to have to instruct his First Officers to perform closer Preflight Inspections.

C wrote:

Sinkrate wrote:

Indeed. It was an oil problem that necessitated the return. The wingtip was hangar rash and an outstanding repair.

So what kind of dumbass passenger would board a 500mph aircraft, bound for Cuba, with part of its wing missing? And what kind of dingbat pilot would even attempt such a flight? Hangar rash??? Yeah, right! – Like driving a car with its fender ripped off is just “garage rash.” Try that excuse on Mr Plod when you get pulled over for it!

It's obviously an item which can be cleared for flight - wingtips, certainly on a metal wing, generally aren't going to be structural and tend to be frangible. If it was anything else they wouldn't fly, as this isn't a tin-pot airline from an economically disadvantaged country. The only penalty would be for the airline who'd be paying the premium for the increase in fuel burn.

The wing tips are an MEL item and the aircraft can be dispatched with one removed. Nothing dumbass or dingbat about it.

Matt