Simviation Forums

I've done it in FSX, but only to see the blades turn.

But lets face it, being a real pilot in a real plane, it's something that they need to know, no matter how un-often it's needed in real life.

Accident: TAM F27 at Guayaramerin on Dec 10th 2013, bird strike

"The damaged propeller caused the airframe to vibrate. The aircraft returned to Guayaramerin for a safe landing about 15 minutes after departure."

Absolutely! I read the Navy's (US that is) "Approach" magazine avidly, and they have a lot of stories where the feathering of a prop saved a lot of lives, since almost all Navy prop jobs have multiple member crews, Like the E-2, for example which not only has the 2 flight crew but also, I think, 5 or 6 GIBs (Guy In Back plural ), and with only 1 engine on each wing if they don't feather a failed engine/prop they have a HUGE drag to that side, causing a very large yaw moment. It can be bad enough to cause to loss of control completely, or at least the inability to fly a Carrier Approach, which are very high prescision!

So YES, I agree, knowing not only HOW but WHEN to feather a prop can be vital to the lives of a large number of folks! The When enters into it, btw, because some engines, if you don't feather before total loss of the engine you can NOT feather. And then the fun starts!

Great pic and link, thanx OAM!

Pat~

It is all well and good quoting that the damaged propeller caused the aircraft to vibrate, but the question is how much, at what frequency and power setting. Without this information, latching onto one point is , well, pointless. The aircraft had just taken off, was probably heavy and you want the engine shut down due to a vibration. Under the circumstances with the damage to the leading edge, you want all the thrust you can get hold of.

Matt

I'm just guessing, but I would imagine that they first shut down the engine, stopped the flow of fuel, feathered the prop, and probably killed whatever electrical power to that engine that they could (fire sensors and whatnot excepted). Just a WAG.

I find it interesting that a bird strike could do that much damage to the wing after it hit the engine first. And of course we cant see the prop/engine damage.


But when I read the story my first thought was that few of us, in the flight sim world, rarely, if ever, practice for such an event.

Not even something so simple as feathering a propeller, never mind abortive takeoffs, engine fires, etc.


I have, and I'm willing to bet that many others have, practiced loss of all engine power while up high. I even have my Saitek switch panel set (thru FSUIPC) to shut off the fuel or ground the magnetos for that purpose. That, at least, I do practice in all of the planes I fly. What can I say, it's fun to do.

OldAirmail wrote:I'm just guessing, but I would imagine that they first shut down the engine, stopped the flow of fuel, feathered the prop, and probably killed whatever electrical power to that engine that they could (fire sensors and whatnot excepted). Just a WAG.

I find it interesting that a bird strike could do that much damage to the wing after it hit the engine first. And of course we cant see the prop/engine damage.


But when I read the story my first thought was that few of us, in the flight sim world, rarely, if ever, practice for such an event.

Not even something so simple as feathering a propeller, never mind abortive takeoffs, engine fires, etc.


I have, and I'm willing to bet that many others have, practiced loss of all engine power while up high. I even have my Saitek switch panel set (thru FSUIPC) to shut off the fuel or ground the magnetos for that purpose. That, at least, I do practice in all of the planes I fly. What can I say, it's fun to do.

Pulling the fire handle will do all of your first sentence (this will not fire the bottles). But again, why shut down an perfectly functioning engine when you have no information about what the vibration frequency was, you are just speculating.

The leading edges are a composite material, not metal, so a good sizes bird can do a lot of damage.

Matt

"... when a bird contacted the right hand propeller and impacted and damaged the leading edge of the right hand wing..."

My mistake, A.S.S.U.M.E., the news snippet didn't say that the engine was damaged.

In my total lack of real world aviation, I assumed that any vibration of a fast spinning engine was bad. And that continuing to run that engine might lead to more damage.

OldAirmail wrote:I'm just guessing, .... Just a WAG.

...

Umm, you do know what a WAG is, don't you?

OldAirmail wrote:"... when a bird contacted the right hand propeller and impacted and damaged the leading edge of the right hand wing..."

My mistake, A.S.S.U.M.E., the news snippet didn't say that the engine was damaged.

In my total lack of real world aviation, I assumed that any vibration of a fast spinning engine was bad. And that continuing to run that engine might lead to more damage.

OldAirmail wrote:I'm just guessing, .... Just a WAG.

...

Umm, you do know what a WAG is, don't you?

WAG...........Wives And Girlfriends http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAGs
As for vibrations in aircraft engines, it is not the end of the world. The CFM 56 (B737) can have up to 4 units and be released serviceable. Four units will incidentally shake the fillings from your teeth. The ATR is around the same. It will be uncomfortable before it is dangerous. I would have to read the AMM for the F27.

expat wrote:...

WAG...........Wives And Girlfriends http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAGs

....

Interesting.

I've always know it as a WILD A$$ GUESS

OldAirmail wrote:

expat wrote:...

WAG...........Wives And Girlfriends http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAGs

....

Interesting.

I've always know it as a WILD A$$ GUESS

It is very true, we are two countries separated by a common language.............

Matt

expat wrote:
It is very true, we are two countries separated by a common language.............

Matt

It is very true, we are two countries separated by a common similar language.... ....!

Paul.... ...!

Fozzer wrote:

expat wrote:
It is very true, we are two countries separated by a common language.............

Matt

It is very true, we are two countries separated by a common similar language.... ....!

Paul.... ...!

It is very true, we are two counties separated by a common similar language language one party has chosen to bastardise

Matt

Oh don't pick on yourselves. It is true that you don't speak or write properly.

But look at all of your pluses.


Well, just try a little harder to bring color, and humor to your lives.


Hay, you guys do fly damn well at any rate. Battle of Britain

OldAirmail wrote:Hay, you guys do fly damn well at any rate. Battle of Britain

My hat goes off to the 8th Air force crews that flew the daylight raids. The Battle of Britain was like a country walk in comparison.......

Matt

Something I've thought about for years, seeing how there have been so many jetliner crashes due to birds and
other debris entering the engines, why don't they put some kind of heavy duty industrial strength fencing or grill
work directly in front of the jet intake?

I've thought this through, (Of course with no college education or degree of any kind ) the engine would breath just
fine, and if you hit a flock of birds and they get stuck in the grill, unless they completely cover it, I would think you
would still have some use of that engine. At least the engine wouldn't be destroyed.

Just a thought! ,, I would like to get your input on this. It's a good idea right? As for props.. well.. your just S.O.L.

BLAZE wrote:Something I've thought about for years, seeing how there have been so many jetliner crashes due to birds and
other debris entering the engines, why don't they put some kind of heavy duty industrial strength fencing or grill
work directly in front of the jet intake?

I've thought this through, (Of course with no college education or degree of any kind ) the engine would breath just
fine, and if you hit a flock of birds and they get stuck in the grill, unless they completely cover it, I would think you
would still have some use of that engine. At least the engine wouldn't be destroyed.

Just a thought! ,, I would like to get your input on this. It's a good idea right? As for props.. well.. your just S.O.L.

Stating the obvious, Dwayne.... ...!

I've also wondered about that myself....and why not wire mesh guards over propellers to prevent folks getting struck by them when on the ground?

Some of our Aircraft Mechanics will know the reason.... ...!

Paul... ...!

P.S...they put "chain-guards" on Push-bikes and Motor-bikes for a very good reason... ...!