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Two RAF aircraft have crashed into Scotland's Moray Firth, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

A spokesperson for the MoD said: "The RAF are aware of an incident involving two Tornado GR4 from RAF Lossiemouth in the Moray Firth area."

Two men have been rescued, two more still missing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-18692532

It seems that the Tornadoes have been hit with a series of crashes recently... I definitely don't want to say anything about the training and skills of the pilots at all, I know nothing about the subject. Maybe though the aircraft themselves are getting pretty old ... :-/

From what ive read in a book called  Tornado - 'Life on a front line squadron' by those two who got shot down in the gulf - John Peters and John Nichol? Flying over water at low level, if indeed that what they were doing (news reports suggest this is where they practice 'bombing') is extremely hazardous when below 250FT as the water and the horizon become one at over 400 knots in certain conditions (white-out i guess), and one slight slip and your in. Your wingman, focusing on what 'your' aircraft is doing, generally 'follows' you in - hes focused on your anti-collison lites or some such other feature of the leader.

Although generally they have some seperation when running into a target, in a 2 ship or 4 ship formation, it maybe was a mid-air collision. I think 2 Tornadoes from Lossiemouth where here at RAF Waddington performing a role demo just two days ago.....

Although getting on in years, i cant quite see why 2 Tornadoes would suffer at exactly the same time with whatever malfunction. Surely as they depleted the Tornado squadrons, those with most life left in the airframes would still be in service as of now?

[quote]From what ive read in a book called

The aircraft are F3's so unlikely to be trucking around at 250 feet, saying that, never say never......
It is reported that they collided in mid air. As for age, well then, we should remove every combat aircraft world wide except for the Typhoon and

The aircraft are F3's so unlikely to be trucking around at 250 feet, saying that, never say never......

According to reports I've seen they were GR4s. The F3 was replaced by the Typhoon in March 2011. http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/tornadof3.cfm

Age of the aircraft [glow=yellow,2,300]really[/glow] play a role in this

Did you mean rarely?

The aircraft are F3's so unlikely to be trucking around at 250 feet, saying that, never say never......

According to reports I've seen they were GR4s. The F3 was replaced by the Typhoon in March 2011. http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/tornadof3.cfm

Age of the aircraft [glow=yellow,2,300]really[/glow] play a role in this

Did you mean rarely?

Daily Mail reporting for you.......

And..

Yes, speed typing and fat fingers.......

Matt

Very sad. Pair of OCU jets it seems, and it appears to have been a mid air collision. If so, completely unrelated to previous recent Tornado crashes.

Desperately sad as yesterday was the 3rd anniversary of a mate being killed when he ran out of room in an F3.

It seems that the Tornadoes have been hit with a series of crashes recently... I definitely don't want to say anything about the training and skills of the pilots at all, I know nothing about the subject. Maybe though the aircraft themselves are getting pretty old ... :-/

Not really; over the past decade it probably works out at one (or less) per year, including the one shot down by a Patriot battery in Kuwait. At least three have been slow speed ground ejection too.

I was at Waddington on Sunday, the two Tornados were from Lossiemouth and from the reserve squadron.

On the part of F3s' doing low level, I've seen them at waddington in the role demo at low level acting as ground attack aircraft.

I was at Waddington on Sunday, the two Tornados were from Lossiemouth and from the reserve squadron.

On the part of F3s' doing low level, I've seen them at waddington in the role demo at low level acting as ground attack aircraft.

Probably because the average public viewer does not know any difference. The role demo bears no real connection to reality and is used as a recruitment video, all be a live video. When I joined up many many moons ago, I sat through a few videos at the recruiting office. No one got shouted at in a single one and everyone was addressed by their respective ranks. Reality is all together a different thing when you actually sign on.........

Matt

Pilots' names have been released

I had a read through the comments that their colleagues and family had left... Naturally very talented people to be posted to Tornados at all, so it's very unfortunate.

Recruitment so selective these days that you have to be fairly talented for any aircrew role. That said, it's a reflection of how much safer aviation is these days that one of those lost was only the second person I've known who's been lost in an aircraft crash (both on 3rd July, a strange coincidence). Talk to older aircrew, and one, two, three or more per year was once the norm amongst people they knee.

Hopefully Flt Lt Sanders and Sqn Ldr Bailey will be recovered soon.

Recruitment so selective these days that you have to be fairly talented for any aircrew role. That said, it's a reflection of how much safer aviation is these days that one of those lost was only the second person I've known who's been lost in an aircraft crash (both on 3rd July, a strange coincidence). Talk to older aircrew, and one, two, three or more per year was once the norm amongst people they knee.

Hopefully Flt Lt Sanders and Sqn Ldr Bailey will be recovered soon.

When I talk to my father about his flying carreer (he was an AE op), the number of friends he lost on Victors, Valliants and Shackletons all of which he flew on himself,