VFR to IFR

[Brett_Henderson]

[quote]Gasp..! NDB approaches!!

[jlvandem]

Gasp..! NDB approaches!!  :o How primitive...
'Course, those are not really old-school NDB approaches, like you might find at some uncontrolled fields, especially overseas...
But somehow it's comforting to know they're still in use. I like NDBs.

What's an NDB? I'm pretty sure my Cirrus doesn't have the equipment necessary to receive NDBs.  ;D

[Brett_Henderson]

What's an NDB? I'm pretty sure my Cirrus doesn't have the equipment necessary to receive NDBs.  

LOL  

Just punch the NDB indentifier into the GPS  

[jlvandem]

Yea that's actually how we simulate tracking to NDBs. We plug in any point... usually an NDB or sometimes an imaginary fix. Next flip the bearing pointer to the GPS it's plugged into and voila! You now have a working ADF. It's not really legal for use to do on NDB approaches but it works just like a moving card ADF nonetheless.

My personal opinion is that all NDBs should be burned. Especially simulated ones in the FRASCA 142 sim. Burn the sim while you're at.

It's an awful simulator both at simulating NDBs, since the ADF instrument isn't working right, and in simulating flight. I can't wait until start using our Level 6 Cirrus sim.

Anyhow, I hate NDBs  ;D

Justin

[Brett_Henderson]

It's hard to argue in favor of them (in fact it's hard to argue for the preservation of any radio nav aid). The equipment is heavy and takes up space. Since GPS's are capable of locating you in 3 dimensions.. it's just a matter of time before every single runway (even short grass strips) have precision approaches. Two GPSs are becoming pretty common equipment.. and like the Liberty we have (see it damaged in the photos section), two Garmin 430s give you both sets of nav/coms too. Very light and very efficient use of panel space.

The ADFs aren't getiing repaired in any of our planes. As soon as they stop functioning accurately.. out they come.

I like NBDs as outer markers, because no matter what approach you're flying.. they can keep you aware and from turning runway heading too early.

[jlvandem]

Yes. You can't go wrong with a Garmin 430. The thing is as advanced as the 747's FMC as far as I'm concerned. That little gizmo can pretty much do everything but a hold for you. I love the vertical speed descent calculator thing. I set my throttle go to that page then plug in the number it gives me in the VS hold on the Otto Pilot. Too bad it can't just do that for me too.

Now when we get the WAAS upgrades for our fleet we'll be doing LPV approaches too. Now that is awesome stuff.

Justin

[wji]

May I suggest reading what Hal Stoen writes a his website; he's forgotten more about flying than anyone here will ever know.

"Yea that's actually how we simulate tracking to NDBs. We plug in any point... usually an NDB or sometimes an imaginary fix. Next flip the bearing pointer to the GPS it's plugged into and voila!"

Simulating what?

Simulating NDB tracking in FS9, the NDB frequency is entered into the ADF tuner and the aircraft is pointed in the same direction as the ADF arrow is pointed. It's as simple as that. When the needle flips the station has been passed.

[jlvandem]

We're talking about flying NDBs in the actual Cirrus. It doesn't have an ADF so in order to simulate tracking to an NDB you must use the GPS and the Bearing Pointer found on the HSI. Basically what happens is the bearing pointer points directly at the point you have programmed into the GPS. It's exactly like how the ADF needle points to the station.

Justin

[wji]

" . . . to simulate tracking to an NDB you must use the GPS and the Bearing Pointer found on the HSI"

Thank you for drawing that to my attention.

Talk about driving a tack with sledge-hammer!

One wonders if Cory Lidle was aware of any of this?
Too bad. So sad.

Original post: "In real life, if you start a VFR flight with a small GA plane and then suddenly the weather goes all bad and you have to choose an alternate and land but you are not cleared because "airport is currently IFR", is it possible (like it is in FS) to create an IFR flight plan "on the fly" so to be cleared for landing? And if this is the case, can this be done on any type of aircraft regardless of the onboard equipment (provided the pilot is IFR certified)? I'm asking this because it actually happened to me in FS, and I was able to land by providing an instant IFR plan "from where I am now to the airstrip". The plane was equipped with the standard radio stack and no autopilot, so I actually landed manually (I just used the ILS beacon as a reference)." -- no mention of Cirrus.

When ATC asks if you are "IFR equipped", they do not take into consideration the type of onboard equipment but only whether it is working and the crew knows how to use it to complete the assigned Class of procedure.

If one is cleared by ATC for the NDB-A Approach, no ILS, GPS, HSI nor any other Class-One ILS equipment comes into the equation.

[Brett_Henderson]

One wonders if Cory Lidle was aware of any of this?
Too bad. So sad.

I might be missing something, but I don't think any type of nav-aid would have made a difference there. They were VFR with ground references galore.. and just mis-judged the wind during a 180 degree turn.

[jlvandem]

Yea. Bill you have me slightly confused on the Corey Lidle thing.

As for ATC knowing your equipment. They do know your equipment because anytime you file an IFR or even VFR flight plan you tell them your type of equipment. Any time you file a flight plan you give them your aircraft type along with a suffix indicating your navigation equipment capabilities. The suffixes are found here. They're about 2/3rds of the way down the page in a large table labeled aircraft suffixes.

It's strange how the subject of a thread changes so quickly.

Justin

[FridayChild]

What must be present in a Piper 180 to consider it IFR certified?

[jlvandem]

What must be present in a Piper 180 to consider it IFR certified?

Gotta love aviation acronyms. The acronym for the required IFR equipment is GRAB CARDD. Some leave out the second D when talking about General Aviation aircraft.

G - Generator or other adequate source of electricity
R - Rate of Turn Indicator
A - Attitude Indicator
B - Ball (Inclinometer) Keeps coordinated flight

C - Clock with Hours, Minutes, and Seconds
A - Altimeter, must be pressure sensitive with 100, 1,000, and 10,000 ft markings
R - Radios appropriate for communication and navigation
D - Directional Gyro
D - DME if operating above FL240 and using VOR as primary means of navigation

As long as you have all of these things along with TOMATOE A FLAMES and FLAPS (look these up they're all over the web and I don't feel like typing them all out) your plane can be certified for IFR flight.

For complete, and confusing, explanation consult FAR 91.205 Subpart D

The FAA:
"We're not happy until you're not happy."

Oh how I love the FAA and it's regs  ;D

Justin

[FridayChild]

I'll take it as a "yes".  ;D
Although I'm not too sure about the "L" in FLAMES... given the Cherokee has a fixed gear.  :D

[jlvandem]

Yea I would assume a Cherokee 180 comes standard with IFR equipment. Of course in flight sim you can easily make it IFR capable aka not spend any money. Of course you could also spend probably close to $100 if you used some Reality XP avionics such as the Sandel HSI and a pair of Garmin 430s  ;D