Plane skids off runway in Madrid

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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby todayshorse » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:21 pm

Interesting that you mention the DC10 - the stall warning was just part of the reason however. The engine that fell off ruptured the hydraulics, the slats retracted and the wing stalled.

American had also only got stick shakers on the captains controls, not the co pilot. If they had chosen the config with stick shakers on both pilots controls (bizarre this, what if the captain was incapaciated during a critical moment?) then the aircraft may have been recoverable.
the NTSB report on this one is an interesting read.

However, if American had been doing maintenance correctly on the engine then it wouldnt have happend at all.

Check out the british accident report on 'Papa India', the trident that came down over staines - its beleived the crew 'dumped' the stick shaker system for reasons unknown after several warnings - although the captain is thought to have been in the process of having a heart attack during the entire take off.
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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby AMDDDA » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:23 pm

Dc-10's and MD-11's can only fly on one engine at 20 degree or higher flaps... according to my curious mind in the sim :P.
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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby DaveSims » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:54 pm

Dc-10's and MD-11's can only fly on one engine at 20 degree or higher flaps... according to my curious mind in the sim :P.


But they do fly quite well on two out of three engines.  The aircraft that crashed this week is an MD-80 series aircraft, which does have climb away power on one engine.
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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby DaveSims » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:56 pm

Interesting that you mention the DC10 - the stall warning was just part of the reason however. The engine that fell off ruptured the hydraulics, the slats retracted and the wing stalled.

American had also only got stick shakers on the captains controls, not the co pilot. If they had chosen the config with stick shakers on both pilots controls (bizarre this, what if the captain was incapaciated during a critical moment?) then the aircraft may have been recoverable.
the NTSB report on this one is an interesting read.

However, if American had been doing maintenance correctly on the engine then it wouldnt have happend at all.

Check out the british accident report on 'Papa India', the trident that came down over staines - its beleived the crew 'dumped' the stick shaker system for reasons unknown after several warnings - although the captain is thought to have been in the process of having a heart attack during the entire take off.


I do know the details, but I just didn't feel like filling in all the spaces.  But you do see my point, all crashes can be attributed to a chain of events, which most times points back at some action by the crew.  Aircraft these days are designed to fly with system failures, but if enough systems fail (including the crew), a crash is possible.
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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby Hagar » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:02 pm

I don't think it's fair to speculate while the investigation is still under way. The media love this sort of thing & come out with all sorts of wild theories with little concern for the truth.

Not that there's much left of the aircraft to investigate. They've apparently found the flight recorders so that might tell them something. The mystery seems to be why it veered off to the right when the problem appeared to be with the port engine.
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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby AMDDDA » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:25 pm

A Pho afterburner effect?


Plane lights on fire, produces 4x the thrust on that engine.
;D ;D ;D
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Re: Plane skids off runway in Madrid

Postby expat » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:35 am

The overheating thing that the media is jumping about sounds like just the temperature probe on the nose of the plane, which is heated and may have been overheating.  It was disconnected to prevent the heat from coming on, but I highly, highly doubt it had anything to do with this incident.  From what I'm hearing there was a possibly engine failure or fire on takeoff, but that doesn't explain the whole crash, as an MD can fly on one engine.  As usual there is a chain of events.  Like the DC-10 crash years back where the engine fell off.  Yes an engine fell off, but the aircraft was still flyable.  But the engine falling off caused a failure of the stall warning system, which in turn failed to alert the copilot (who had the controls) that he was too slow and allowed the aircraft to crash.



An over heating probe would have no effect on the accident. There are two sets, Captain and First Officer........redundancy. They can be set INOP in accordance with the MEL (Minimum equipment list) The heating is for anti icing...............Spain to Canery Island during the summer. The media as usual are showing an incredibly lack of research. Yes the it would be switched on as a matter of course, but outside of icing conditions, heating is not required.

However, there are now reports that the Airport CCTV caught the aircraft on film and it was not burning, but suffered a power loss resulting in the roll and the right wing hitting the ground.

Half way down
"A video recording of the departure of Spanair flight JK5022 shows the plane experienced a dramatic loss of power as it attempted to take to the skies.

The footage taken by the Spanish civil air authority AENEAS contradicts earlier eyewitness reports that the left engine of the plane burst into flames as it left the runaway.

It shows the plane leaving the runway but at a height of only a few metres the aircraft appears to lose power and tilt to one side causing the right wing to hit the ground. Seconds later the plane burst into flames.

The CCTV clip has not been released but will be studied by investigators"


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