a question about landing in real life

[bin801]

why those real life jetliner pilots don't  use approch function to land jetliner totally auto? instead, they chose to took over at the last stage, at least in all videos I saw.
if flight Sim is not optimistically designed? if the real life jetliners have the function, why they don't want to use?
I need illumination from professionals and v-pilots

thanks alot

[EGNX]

Hmmm... I always thought it was down to pilot discretion. But they might be advised to use APP function on the autopilot down to a certain height if the airport supports it.

If I was an airline pilot I certainly would want to be doing the landing myself. Both to be actually doing my job, and to know that the aircraft will get down safely.

[C]

Because flying would be 100% boring if they didn't, and some aircraft don't have an autoland capability.

Landing like many others in aviation is a very perishable skill, so practice is worth having at every available opportunity. Automatics on the other hand come in very handy at high workload airports in marginal weather conditions.

[RitterKreuz]

there are three guide lines to making a perfect landing.

trouble is... nobody knows what they are.



furthermore...

in real life operations a pilots particular company publishes a flight manual that dictates when certain modes of the autopilot are authorized, when they are not authorized and when they HAVE to be used and what experience (hours ratings etc) you have to have in order to be able to use it.

it can be very bureaucratic really.

for example...

"Use of the flight driector, yaw damper or autopilot is not authorized during takeoff until the aircraft has reached acceleration altitude or 500 feet AFL whichever is higher. For landings... use of the autopilot is not authorized below 200 feet AGL during a visual approach. During an ILS coupled approach with approach mode active, in IMC conditions when ceiling and visibility are limiting factors in the approach, the approach mode must be disabled no lower than 69 feet agl regardless of visual conditions upon reaching that altitude."

blah blah blah etc etc etc

addendum:

airliners are flown via strict procedures from the lowly turboprops to the luxury trans Atlantic liners. flight crew training is highly standardized and every flight is conducted via a "profile" from takeoff to landing roll out.

for example... you dont just get in and read the check list and fly it like a cessna or even like most people do on flight sim... there is a "script" of memorized text which the pilots speak like actors in a play.

this is so that regardless of whether your flying with Capt. miller, Capt. Killian, Capt. Coors or Capt. Jagermeister you know (ot at least have a very good idea ) what he is going to do and when he is going to do it.

[bin801]

thanks alot  EGNX,  C  and RitterKreuz !!
your replies let me know my opinion is not unique at all. We share the same feeling
they need to do something during the boring flight and control landing is the most exciting moment when you control the aircraft getting close and close to runway( so everytime i will takeover control:), and sometime, that is not bad for safety.

so the conclusion is they want to do it for fun, for skill practice and for safer at last. am i right?  ;)

[RitterKreuz]

fun, skill, practice to maintain proficiency, as well as company policy  ;)

typically, we will hand fly the aircraft to our initial altitude where we first level off, then the autopilot is engaged.

the autopilot usually remains on until you're about 5 miles or less from landing.

[bin801]

[quote]fun, skill, practice to maintain proficiency, as well as company policy

[bin801]

and sorry for bothering question one more. according to some disaster flydeck recording, the yelling guy sounds like the captain instead of FO, (because sounds like a tuitor's instruction)  in those bad weather, distasting moment, are they training FO?

[EGNX]

In bad visibility it will be safer for the autopilot to auto land the aircraft. Because using the ILS the autopilot can effectively 'see' through the fog and fly a perfectly normal approach. However the pilot could do this using cockpit instruments to follow the ILS, but it will never match the accuracy of a computer. Saying this though, minimums have to be achieved for the auto land to go ahead, and I think it is something ridiculous like 50 feet for a CATIII-C ILS approach! So if you can't see the runway lights at 50 feet on that type of approach then you still can't auto land! I'm guessing this is just so that the pilots can actually visually assure themselves that they are landing on the runway and that there hasn't been a malfunction with the computers.

I'm not quite sure for windy and gusty conditions, but I always presumed that the computers would have a hard time keeping an aircraft on an approach, and constantly under compensating. Where as a pilot can keep ahead of the weather and would be better suited to landing the aircraft in these conditions. Plus, with a cross wind the pilot has to kick off the drift with the rudder to line up with the runway, and I don't think that an auto land actually does this.

And with your last question, it can be all down to who is in control of the aircraft at that certain time. Captains don't always do the take-offs and landings, so if a FO was in control when something screws up on landing, really, depending on how serious the problem is, the Captain might not have time to take control, or be to busy trying to deal with other aspects of the problem to do so.

[RitterKreuz]

they guy yelling might sound like the captain giving instructions, but it could be the first officer... or it could be two captains.

Pilot responsibility and job description is separated into two categories:

"Pilot Flying" (PF) and "Pilot not Flying" (PNF)

The pilot flying is obviously in control of the aircraft, even if you are the first officer, if your the PF you are basically in command of what the aircraft does. If you want to deviate around weather to the north instead of the south... its your call. If you want to level off at 25,000 feet instead of 30,000 feet, tell the captain "Tell em we want Flight level two five zero please" and he will key the radio and make the request for you.

of course it will be up to the captain in the end to decide whether or not you are making the right decisions... 99% of the time there isnt even a discussion about it.

now... The "pilot not flying" is in charge of radio communications, assisting with navigation, coordinating with flight attendants, and probably most importantly... providing information vital to the safety of the flight to the pilot flying until the situation is resolved... such as "Your a little fast" or "your a little high" if the pilot flying is too fast or too slow or too high etc it is the PNF's job to tell him this.. .regardless of what seat he is sitting in

sometimes i have had the PNF tell me these things, and sometimes I.. as the PNF... have told the PF these things but very rarely do we have to do it.

Now... as for extreme weather conditions. it depends.

my personal technique, which tends to be pretty universal, is as follows:

Lets say for example, the wind is fairly calm, moderate turbulence, ceiling is about 300-400ft AGL with one mile visibility. and there is not a lot of traffic in the air

I'll let the autopilot couple to the approach, join the localizer and glideslope, and the auto pilot will fly the plane down to about 1,000 feet.

at 1,000 feet I'll click off the autopilot and hand fly the remainder of the approach to landing.

example #2... lets say, regardless of wind or turbulence, if the weather is hovering right at minimums, visibility very low... 1/4 mile or less and there is a lot of traffic.

in that case i will usually keep my head in the game by allowing the autopilot to fly the approach down until the approach lights are in sight, once the lights are in sight ill click off the autopilot and land the plane from there. take a look at this video for an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZOyrMrPOCQ

My aircraft does not have auto land, but autoland is typically only used when you are down to zero zero visibility and it would be otherwise virtually impossible for the pilot to land the aircraft. for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEZSRhYw ... re=related

one thing ill add*** some approach procedures do not allow the autopilot to be used period.

for example they will say something like this...

"Autopilot coupled approaches not authorized below 890 feet AGL"

[bin801]

thank you so so much RitterKreuz
I am reading your reply word by word, that is very helpful to me.
thanks alot