Piper Cub checkout at 12N

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Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby beaky » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:59 pm

My recent checkout in a Piper Cub went pretty well, especially considering almost three months' worth of rust.
The weather was perfect: high overcast to block the sun, and cool dry air with a very weak,indecisive wind.

My mount was the Andover Flight Academy's Piper L-4, the military variant of the great Cub design, with all that extra glass and a period paint scheme. It's registered as a J3, however... something to do with the transfer from military to civil registry.

It has a C85 with an electric starter, but no radios. There is an intercom, which was helpful.

My instructor was pretty specific about what we would cover, and suggested I would probably not get to land the airplane on the first flight.
 I was willing to defer to his wisdom- this plane is not any rental they just turn you loose in; it's a tool in a program of tailwheel instruction that these guys take very seriously. And a new type to me- I'd worked the stick for a few minutes in a J3 once before, but that was a long time ago.

He did ask about my tailwheel time, and laughed when he heard it was in a Champ.
"The Champ lands much flatter than the Cub, and you can see where you're going... anyway, you'll see..."
 As soon as I climbed in the back, where I could not see the panel or much of anything else with him up front, I saw.

Or rather, didn't.  :o

 We started out with some taxiing S-turns, something I'd never really done, except for a few veering turns in the Champ. Bill told me he would work the brakes this time, which was just as well, as I was not sure if I could find them in time. :D

Halfway to the hold-short line I had the taxiing down pretty good. It's easy to just keep the tire in the corner of your eye and watch for the centerline to appear... then tap the rudder. Easy, with no wind...
and yes, it confirmed that the default MSFS Cub is so un-Cublike in its ground manners that it is not worthy of the name. Pretty close in flight, but if you are like me and hate trying to roll it on the ground for any reason, you would really enjoy taxiing the real thing.

We did our simple run-up, and he reviewed me in the long-forgotten CIGARTIPS mnemonic checklist, which I'd always ignored, preferring to use a paper checklist, but which seemed very appropriate.

Then I taxiied onto the grass for my first grass-runway takeoff! In a Cub, yet! Yippee!   :)

It was fun, and easy to hold her straight in the faint breeze. The sensations and required inputs reminded me of the Aeronca, so I felt comfortable.

We climbed to depart westward, in smooth cold air with good visibilty and a high gray deck above.

I didn't bother with the trim, and he didn't prompt me to or mess with it himself. Not sure I could have reached it anyway; it's way up front on one side, much handier for the front-seater, even though you solo a Cub from the back.   :-?
I found it easy to level off and maintain altitude with whatever setting he'd dialed in for takeoff; not much pressure required. We set 2200 rpm for cruise, and headed out for some maneuvers.

Made some easy clearing turns, despite me having only my peripheral vision and the underside of the center wing section for a reference, then he demo'd a power-off stall at 2500 feet.
It's done the same way you do it in any plane, and it breaks not unlike the Champ or any Cessna I've flown. Like the Champ, though, I noticed it will not "swoop" in a pitch-up at takeoff speed as well as even a 150- it will start to wallow and sink very soon if you don't pull back enough to induce the stall before it has slowed down. It showed no eagerness to drop a wing in power-offs, even when I did some. ;)

The power-on was also very Champ-like: extreme pitch and plenty of power early on, very little tendency to climb in this attitude, then with some effort you can get it to shiver and then drop its nose very predictably. Not much yaw at that moment, certainly nothing that good rudder can't handle.

But a Cub will spin on you, especially in a skidding turn with power on. If it "breaks over the top" you could have some real trouble. And apparently it's not the safest plane to get into a spin with- I guess that's the price you pay for having that "tail-waggability" available and not using it properly in the first place.

The CFI admitted he was not eager to demonstrate a spin, especially in an antique airframe, but he was eager to show me the Falling Leaf, a maneuver I'd never done, and an excellent spin prevention and recovery exercise.

What's wacky- and a little scary- about a Falling Leaf is that if you set it up right, the plane will be not quite stalled and not quite mushing- it just enters a wallowing descent where airflow is such that the ailerons, if they do anything at all, will have the opposite effect to what you are inputting!! Yes...the dreaded Negative Roll Damping (cue Psycho shower-scene music).  :o

 It's a drag thing, and an extreme attitude for any airplane. Hard to imagine getting into that position by mistake, but practicing it is good insurance... because if it happens to you, you'd better know to center that stick and start moving your feet!  :o

And it's fun.

You enter like a power-off stall: carb heat, power back, hold it until airspeed bleeds off, pitch up- and then, rather than pull it quite all the way back, pull it back just until the plane begins to sink, then hold that. Don't let the airspeed increase, but don't let it "break", either. And no cheating with the throttle.

 The plane will wallow a bit and try to roll, but rather than use aileron to correct that, use your feet. As you descend in this pseudo-tailslide, try to force the nose left and right while keeping the wings level without aileron input. As soon as the nose swings through center, ease in opposite foot. Use the dihedral; most planes have more than enough dihedral to make it easy to control bank safely with your feet. I found it quite easy to do in the Cub, and a very useful exercise for even a trike driver. It belongs in the toolbox with MCA turns and flying the pattern with only trim, feet and power.

But it's a perfect old-school exercise for an afternoon in a Cub; I really enjoyed that.  ;D


My steep 360s were not so hot, but at least I felt I was coordinating rudder properly, despite not being able to see the ball.

Which reminds me of another impression: flying VFR without any instruments (except a few peeks when he wanted me to see something and leaned out of the way) was liberating, even more so than just flying without a radio. Some real old-timey flying, where I was more connected with the plane than usual. The Champ with its bare-bones panel, murky wet compass and inop G-meter suddenly seemed too complicated for me really enjoy flying it.

"I like to teach people to fly the wing at all times" is one comment I remember from our conversation up there.

It's a worthy challenge, but very natural and -best of all- not complicated.



"You're fine; I have nothing to say about your air work, so let's go do some landings", Bill eventually said. It was time to return, with him navigating so I could concentrate on holding course and altitude.


The wind was favoring 03 only to the extent that the sock was hanging limply on the south side of its pole, quivering.

I love flying the pattern when the air is thick and cool and dry... smooth and firm, like a nice driveway. Makes for a confident approach. And 12N is pretty easy on the eyes from up there- a small lake at either end, and low rolling hills on either side, with some tall trees well-clear of the approaches and runway. Beautiful.
 

My first approach found me a bit high at the top of final (one of my common errors), but it was great opportunity to slip that baby down, first one way, then the other. Bill directed me to focus on the midpoint to establish the flare, and the peripheral view from the back being pretty wide and low to the ground, I was easily able to set up a good-enough 3-pointer.

We made several circuits, with Bill doing one to further explain a little "secret" of the Cub: the response curve of the elevator is such that when you pull back that last little bit, the elevator comes up much more rapidly than up to that point; it sort of "flicks". This feature is used to stick the tailwheel on at that perfect moment.

I never quite found that moment, but I did well. At least I didn't bounce...like somebody I know... cough... "New bungees", Bill explained.  ::)    But even that  series of little rebounds was very sedate... the Cub has a lot to offer an attentive pilot.
 Just a few honest 3-pointers to a full stop, and a lot of pattern and taxi practice... very enjoyable.

So what next? I was told that if I wanted to continue in the Cub, we'd next cover some ground school, to get me more familiar with the machine itself. They probably won't let me solo it, although I think they do that for students doing their full primary training in that plane. Or I could consider joining Damien, the chief pilot, in the school's Top Cub for some advanced :bush" classes...yeah, that'll probably happen. Then there's the Stearman they offer dual in... an expensive date, but how I can I resist?   :-*

All that could keep me "off the streets" for a while, until I finally get it together and hunt down my own plane.
Last edited by beaky on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Look mum, no tailwheel

Postby Allen_Z » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:04 pm

Bill told me he would work the brakes this time, which was just as well, as I was not sure if I could find them in time.


:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCWFMJaB ... re=related
Last edited by Allen_Z on Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look mum, no tailwheel

Postby beaky » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:25 pm

Bill told me he would work the brakes this time, which was just as well, as I was not sure if I could find them in time.


:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCWFMJaB ... re=related



I've seen that before; that's a whole different airplane: a PA-18 Super Cub, with at least 150 hp- almost twice as much as what I was flying.

And probably much better brakes. ;D
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Re: Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby Xyn_Air » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:48 pm

Fabulous account, RD!  Thanks for taking the time to share your experience in such detail.  My dad's friend owns and flies a taildragger (Cessna 170; yeah, bigger and beefier than the Cub you were flying), so some of what you were talking about, especially with regards to visibility, sounded very familiar to some of the things he and my father have mentioned.  You really had me captivated by what you were relating . . . even the bits I didn't understand!  ;D  I look forward to hearing about your next adventure!

Gratefully,
~Darrin
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Re: Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby Allen_Z » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:51 pm

probably much better brakes


not fer long  ;D
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Re: Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby beaky » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:39 am

probably much better brakes


not fer long  ;D



Yeah... exactly why you'd better know what you're doing to try the tricks that guy does in that video.
Even worse than having them fade in such a situation would be to have them lock up on you!

But he really doesn't seem to work the brakes too much there; it seems he doesn't do much with them unless the plane is already almost stopped.

It's really not that hard to get the tail up at a low speed in a Cub- even a stock J-3 with the smaller engine. I've seen J-3 masters hold the tail up all the way to the end of the roll and come to a stop in that attitude (briefly) with no more stress on the brakes than normal.
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Re: Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby beaky » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:40 am

Fabulous account, RD!  Thanks for taking the time to share your experience in such detail.  My dad's friend owns and flies a taildragger (Cessna 170; yeah, bigger and beefier than the Cub you were flying), so some of what you were talking about, especially with regards to visibility, sounded very familiar to some of the things he and my father have mentioned.  You really had me captivated by what you were relating . . . even the bits I didn't understand!  ;D  I look forward to hearing about your next adventure!

Gratefully,
~Darrin


If you have any questions, fire away. I usually try to write these things so that anybody can understand, but I probably got a little "arcane" with this one.
If I were to guess, I'd bet you didn't get "CIGARTIPS"... the thing is, the meaning of that acronym varies, apparently, and I can't even remember now what the TIPS part stands for...LOL!
Last edited by beaky on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby Xyn_Air » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:37 am

If you have any questions, fire away. I usually try to write these things so that anybody can understand, but I probably got a little "arcane" with this one.
If I were to guess, I'd bet you didn't get "CIGARTIPS"... the thing is, the meaning of that acronym varies, apparently, and I can't even remember now what the TIPS part stands for...LOL!


You are right!  I have no clue what CIGARTIPS means!  :-[ ;D  And if you ever remember what it means, you can definitely let me know!  ;)

Beyond that, I think I will take you up on your offer to ask you questions!  Well, at least until you get sick of them, that is . . .  ::)

For right now:

1) You said the aircraft had no radios and only an intercom.  How do you get permission to take-off and land?!?  :o

2) What do you mean by when a plane "breaks over the top"?  You mentioned this when you talked about doing power-off stalls, I believe.

3) Would you get "Negative Roll Damping" from a really, really high angle of attack?

OK, I am sure that three questions is enough for now.  Don't worry, though.  After you answer those and I have time to digest your answers, I have plenty more.  ;)

Thanks for all your information!
~Darrin
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Re: Piper Cub checkout at 12N

Postby beaky » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 pm

If you have any questions, fire away. I usually try to write these things so that anybody can understand, but I probably got a little "arcane" with this one.
If I were to guess, I'd bet you didn't get "CIGARTIPS"... the thing is, the meaning of that acronym varies, apparently, and I can't even remember now what the TIPS part stands for...LOL!


You are right!  I have no clue what CIGARTIPS means!  :-[ ;D  And if you ever remember what it means, you can definitely let me know!  ;)


All explained here:
http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 1201798577

1) You said the aircraft had no radios and only an intercom.  How do you get permission to take-off and land?!?  :o


12N is an uncontrolled field in Class E airspace, outside any Mode C veil... so unless we wanted to fly into a Class B, C, or D airspace we need no radio, and if we are outside a Mode C veil, we need no transponder. No permission required, and traffic awareness is done with eyeballs and common sense. ;)

2) What do you mean by when a plane "breaks over the top"?  You mentioned this when you talked about doing power-off stalls, I believe.


What I'm referring to is entry into a spin (out of a stall) where the wing that is low as the stall occurs actually comes up immediately as the spin begins... a "normal" spin entry would have the airplane roll and yaw into the spin in a more predictable manner.  It's hard to explain exactly why that happens (as I'm not sure I completely understand it myself), but here is a good clip of an "over the top" spin entry done on purpose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUZFv9qgtNo

3) Would you get "Negative Roll Damping" from a really, really high angle of attack?


Yes; that is more or less necessary to induce the "deep stall" condition required.
Last edited by beaky on Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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