JSF latest!

[C]

Nowadays the only real reason for a 2 seater is to give all the VIPs a back seat ride. Simulators can do enough nowadays - one of the Eurofighter test pilots once said in a talk that really the two seat Typhoon was potentially unnecessary, as he had that much confidence in the sim.

[dcunning30]

Which varient? The VTOL or the conventional fixed wing one?


And how late is it?

The VTOL will be years late and over budget.
Harrier = KISS. Keep it simple stupid. One butterfly valve for puffer duct bleed, 4 nozzles connected by bike chains and drive shafts and a air motor to drive it. All mechanical.
JSF, more doors to open for VTOL than an advent calender.

Matt

Based on that logic, digital fly-by-wire and redundant systems should be an abject failure.

[expat]

Redundant systems only work peace time when the normal system fails not when it is destroyed . They are just as likely to be damaged as the normal use system. Also during combat you have the increased risk that a cable loom will be damaged. Plug and play is all well and good, but if you have to replace a loom, splicing is not an option with todays wiring and data transfer lines. Being EX Huges, you will know for example that a wave carrier guide cannot be repaired. It is either in perfect condition or it is in the bin If a complete loom has to be replaced, then that aircraft is not going any place for a long time.  With our older systems of conventional wiring, splices and a BRD an aircraft can be back up far quicker.

Matt

[Isak922]

The A-10 is the measure of simplicity, and is very very hard to kill.  Thats why they never even had to make a two seat trainer, just throw the pilot in and toss him the keys.  ;D

The A-10 is an aircraft built around a gun.  It's role is straightforward.  Fly low and slow, kill tanks and have a high survivability component.  Being a high-performance air-superiority fighter is not a requirement.

Ah, but that's not the JSF's main role either. The main role for the JSF, is to do the jobs that the F-16 and F/A-18's do. Kill SAM's so that the bombers and attack aircraft can go in, Strikes, Interdiction, Etc. While it is true that the F-35 is a high-performance aircraft, it isn't being designed as an air-superiority fighter. That's what the F-22 is for  ;)

[dcunning30]

Redundant systems only work peace time when the normal system fails not when it is destroyed .

Although I've scaling up to much larger systems, but ever heard of an A10 coming home after losing a verticle stablizer and engine in combat?  redundant systems!  

They are just as likely to be damaged as the normal use system. Also during combat you have the increased risk that a cable loom will be damaged. Plug and play is all well and good, but if you have to replace a loom, splicing is not an option with todays wiring and data transfer lines.

That's why there are connectors.

[quote] Being EX Huges, you will know for example that a wave carrier guide cannot be repaired. It is either in perfect condition or it is in the bin If a complete loom has to be replaced, then that aircraft is not going any place for a long time.

[Chris_F]

[quote]Redundant systems only work peace time when the normal system fails not when it is destroyed . They are just as likely to be damaged as the normal use system. Also during combat you have the increased risk that a cable loom will be damaged. Plug and play is all well and good, but if you have to replace a loom, splicing is not an option with todays wiring and data transfer lines. Being EX Huges, you will know for example that a wave carrier guide cannot be repaired. It is either in perfect condition or it is in the bin If a complete loom has to be replaced, then that aircraft is not going any place for a long time.

[Chris_F]

[quote]
Ah, but that's not the JSF's main role either. The main role for the JSF, is to do the jobs that the F-16 and F/A-18's do. Kill SAM's so that the bombers and attack aircraft can go in, Strikes, Interdiction, Etc. While it is true that the F-35 is a high-performance aircraft, it isn't being designed as an air-superiority fighter. That's what the F-22 is for

[Chris_F]

I find the analogies to the A10 interesting.  It's a fascinating aircraft I agree, but it's a one-trick pony.  It'll never do some of the things that other aircraft can do.  And you could never design, say an air superioity aircraft, with the same features that make the A10 appealing.  An air superiority aircraft built like an A10 would be a sitting duck.  A bomber built like an A10 wouldn't have enough range.  And a dual role aircraft?

The A10 does one job and does it well, but that's it.  And in that role it isn't the only aircraft that can fill it.  THe F16 for example can kill tanks, though perhaps not as cheaply as the A10.  The Apache can kill tanks too.  Maybe even more versitaly than the A10.  If there were a need to kill tanks in high threat environments I think the Comache would be getting funded.  But there really isn't.  Tank killing ain't what it used to be (when the west was preparing for a massed armored assault from the Soviets across the plains of Europe).

[expat]

Redundant systems only work peace time when the normal system fails not when it is destroyed . They are just as likely to be damaged as the normal use system. Also during combat you have the increased risk that a cable loom will be damaged. Plug and play is all well and good, but if you have to replace a loom, splicing is not an option with todays wiring and data transfer lines. Being EX Huges, you will know for example that a wave carrier guide cannot be repaired. It is either in perfect condition or it is in the bin If a complete loom has to be replaced, then that aircraft is not going any place for a long time.  With our older systems of conventional wiring, splices and a BRD an aircraft can be back up far quicker.

Matt

Wave guides?  For flight controls?  Exactly what kind of signal is being carried on modern flight control data lines?  

Wave guide was an example ONLY of something that is hard or not possible to replace in field, I made no connection to flight controls. As for data transfer lines only being a DC signal, correct, but once you start to splice that sort of line, you (can) change the characteristics of that cable and then in turn have an effect on the signal sent.

Matt

[Woodlouse2002]

If an aircraft recieves enough damage to the right wiring loom then I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up as a write off.

[Chris_F]

Same could be said for hydraulic lines though.

[SkyNoz]

Nowadays the only real reason for a 2 seater is to give all the VIPs a back seat ride. Simulators can do enough nowadays - one of the Eurofighter test pilots once said in a talk that really the two seat Typhoon was potentially unnecessary, as he had that much confidence in the sim.

Well, that makes sense, although for some aircraft like the F-14(ret.) F-18D F-15D, and few other's which have rear seat's, their needs to be a back seater to control weapons, etc.

[C]

Nowadays the only real reason for a 2 seater is to give all the VIPs a back seat ride. Simulators can do enough nowadays - one of the Eurofighter test pilots once said in a talk that really the two seat Typhoon was potentially unnecessary, as he had that much confidence in the sim.

Well, that makes sense, although for some aircraft like the F-14(ret.) F-18D F-15D, and few other's which have rear seat's, their needs to be a back seater to control weapons, etc.

Indeed, as they're designed to be flown with two crew, along with aircraft such as the Tornado, and the ground attack variant of the Flanker family amongst others. However, you'll notice that the Angle/Italian/Spanish/German Typhoon has a two seat trainer variant. Don't see many two seater F-22s and F-35s (or we won't see too many!) around... Was it (the two seat Typhoon) entirely necessary, if you see my point?

[Isak922]

Don't see many two seater F-22s and F-35s (or we won't see too many!) around... Was it (the two seat Typhoon) entirely necessary, if you see my point?

As far as I know, There won't be any two seater F-22's or F-35's, shame as it is. I wanna get a joyride in one  :P

[Chris_F]

Nowadays the only real reason for a 2 seater is to give all the VIPs a back seat ride. Simulators can do enough nowadays - one of the Eurofighter test pilots once said in a talk that really the two seat Typhoon was potentially unnecessary, as he had that much confidence in the sim.

Well, that makes sense, although for some aircraft like the F-14(ret.) F-18D F-15D, and few other's which have rear seat's, their needs to be a back seater to control weapons, etc.

The latest round of aircraft are being designed for reduced pilot work load to allow the single pilot to do all the things the larger crews of these aircraft do.