Another one through the fence...

[Boss_BlueAngels]

This time I witnessed it!  A pilot was climbing out from takeoff and just as he crossed the numbers on the departure end, the engine failed.  He tried to do that 180 back to the runway, but being directly over it, and no more than 200 feet, had no chance.  I didn't see the impact, but he appears to have made it on the runway, but couldn't stop and went through the fence, accross the road, and flipped upside down in a field just about 50 yards away.  He is OK with some serious cuts to the head.  

The landing gear is all crunched up so it appears that he made a rather abrupt "landing" on those mains and squashed them.  

I'm not sure on the exact type of aircraft, but it either a Champ or Cadet... or similar aircraft.

Anyway, I'll fill you in on more details later.

[cspyro21]

Ouch . Good to hear the guy's OK.

[Ecko]

Oooh, not good. Good thing he's ok though.


By the way, who's taking care of those engines down where you fly? Wasn't it you who also witnessed an engine failure sometime ago?

[Boss_BlueAngels]

Yeah, thank goodness he's OK.

Man, it's really sad because that guy is out almost every morning when I go into work flying that plane.  It was in beautiful condition too!!  :(

Well since I've been to work here we have had three airplanes go through that same stupid fence... the first was pilot error, landed long, the second was carb ice (pilot error) and this one is yet to be determined but probably will be due to pilot error as he was having problems earlier in his flight.  

Our maintenance facility has a very good reputation.  :)  

Here is a link to the story and a small picture:
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/ ... 1471b.html

http://www.kirotv.com/news/9440879/detail.html#

BTW, I made it on the news!  lol  

And the plane I think is a write-off... both wings are significantly warped, and even the fuselage frame is bent a bit.  

[gryshnak]

How many times does it have to be said?  Even way back in the early days of WW1, they were telling student pilots - if your engine fails just after take off, NEVER TURN BACK.  Put the nose down, maintain airspeed, find somewhere to land even if it damages your plane in the process.

A common result of turning back under those conditions - tight turn, no power, minimal airspeed - is to stall the wingtip on the inside of the turn.  The plane suddenly drops a wing, rolls inverted, the pilot has no altitude to perform a recovery and goes straight in.  Fatalities are far more likely than if the plane had been put down in a field somewhere straight ahead.

Planes can be replaced.  People cannot.

Gryshnak

[beaky]

This story also illustrates that even if you make the runway, if you touch down midfield, you're not necessarily going to be OK.
Every single time I take off, no matter where I am, I ask myself: where can I put it if I have to? OK, how about now? And now?

I just don't think about turning back, unless I'm at TPA... and even then, it could be... interesting.

[gryshnak]

Y'know, I'm going to try this with various planes when I got home tonight - take off and cut the engine as I pass over the numbers at about 200ft.  Could I make it back safely with a C172?  Piper Cub?  Tiger Moth?

Gryshnak

[beefhole]

How many times does it have to be said?  Even way back in the early days of WW1, they were telling student pilots - if your engine fails just after take off, NEVER TURN BACK.  Put the nose down, maintain airspeed, find somewhere to land even if it damages your plane in the process.

Exactly what I was going to say-if it fails right after takeoff, it is common sense that you cannot make the runway.  This is something that, as far as I know, is not drilled into students in their training-all they get is "try to make the runway."  It needs to be stressed that if it happens right after takeoff, just put the nose down and try to find a good place to land IN FRONT OF YOU, as gryshnak said.

Glad to hear the pilot is all right, sounded like a nasty crash!

[Brett_Henderson]

Get a safety pilot/observer and yourself above 3000agl over a safe area for practice manuevers.. Configure the plane for takoff .. and fly a Vy climb.. pick a landmark.. pull to idle and try to make it back to that landmark, opposite heading without losing more than 200 feet..

It aint easy..

[gryshnak]

Well, that was quite interesting.  I've just spent an hour or so taking off with various planes, killing the engine at 200ft, and trying to get back to the runway.  Obviously it depends on the particular plane you're flying - I wouldn't expect a 737 to do this! - but it is possible.  I'm flying mostly early biplanes these days so my choice of aircraft was biased  8)

C172: I generally made it back to the airfield, but not back to the runway.

Tiger Moth: Turned okay but sank too quickly, landed safely short of the runway.

Pitts Special: Turned quickly but doesn't glide too well.  I could usually make it back but could only meet the runway at 45 degrees and went off the other side, I think that's what happened to the real pilot in the first post.  Just once I got it right and was able to line up and land properly, but I could never do it again despite numerous attempts.

Airco DH2 (Aeroplane Heaven): Got back onto the runway at least 50% of the time, and always made it back to the airfield regardless.

And the winner, returning and landing from the same runway every single time... Fokker Dr.1 Triplane from SimTECH.  Able to fly slowly yet retain good control and make reasonably tight turns without an engine, provided the airspeed was maintained.

Obviously some of this depends on the accuracy of the flight model, but I stayed away from the blatantly inaccurate planes (like the Demoiselle that cruises at 130kts) and only used those that 'feel right' in terms of handling.  It also makes a big difference that I knew the engine was going to cut when it did, and so didn't waste time and altitude trying to restart it.

Gryshnak

[Boss_BlueAngels]

OK, get a Champ (that's what the airplane was) and set yourself up at Harvey Airfield in Snohomish (KS43) takeoff on runway 32 with about a 5-10kt headwind.  Slightly before you cross over the numbers cut the engine... and THEN try to get back!  


This guy's problem wasn't goint too slow, he was going to blasted FAST!  ANd you'd think he'd have just kept it slow and put it down in the field.  It was pretty thick grass, so he may have still flipped... but certainly not destroyed the airplane.  


And one thing about our little airport, is that there is NO PLACE to the north to land!  It's a hilll filled with homes, and a river snaking around.  The only place he could land is on a 2 lane hi-way.... or the huge freakin' field next to the runway.  Either way he'd end up HAVING to make a 180.... but to try and actually make it to the runway certainly increases your chances of serious injury!