gusty landings and part 141 review board

[bamair]

since my last post I only got to fly once that friday then the weekend came didn't fly then my flight instructor was out of town, yesterday there was fog so my flight was cancelled.. so today I finally got to go up and practice my mock check ride, well everything is where it should be right now except my freaking landings...i'm having a real problem with keeping certain speeds in the pattern. I'm suppose to enter the pattern on a downwind at 1000agl 98kts with 10degrees of flaps, once I abeam my landing spot 93knts rpm1750 then turn base 60degrees from the runway at 83knts 26degrees of flaps, then final at 63 40degrees of flaps..the only problem is base and final, i'm constantly pitching up or down to get that airspeed theres no smooth glide into the runway which always causes me to be too low or high obviously the winds were extremley gusty today but thats still no excuse, I am in a part 141 program a very strict one at that, so I had to sit infront of a review board with the chief flight instructor she granted me 6hrs more to fly including a evaluation flight and a additional 4hr ground briefings...got any tips i can use? should I trim all the way thru the pattern or just on final? i slammed into the runway a good two times today, even made my instructor say oh ****
even made me check the ELT a few times..Due to the scheduling I can't fly tomorrow fly thursday then not fri-sun then i have practice again on monday then i'm suppose to take my evaluation ride on tuesday...what happens if i need more time? i didnt think to ask that today and i can't find nothing in my schools manual, does anyone know?

also besides studying the far's and aims is there any questions i should be aware of on the stage check ride ? should I be prepared for a lot of WHAT IF'S situations? or more focused on the systems and the books?

[beaky]

The stage check shouldn't involve much book stuff other than what you normally think about while flying.
But I could be wrong, although I did  do my PP under Part 141 (just checked my old syllabus).  The thing that helped me with the stage checks was to just treat it like any dual flight: don't worry about what the instructor is thinking or what notes are being taken, just do your best.
And there's nothing much you can do in gusty conditions except stay below Va and don't fight it too much. It's actually a pretty good excuse for an imperfect approach, esp. for a beginner (like this 200-hr PP, for example!). Don't ever try to fight your way out of air your plane can't handle- you will lose. No matter how strict the school, they've got to give you some leeway for adverse conditions...
 Again, I feel I should gently urge you to focus on the flying, more than making the grade or keeping up with everybody else- if you don't get over that now at this early stage, that attitude could end up biting you someday. Who knows? Maybe the only thing wrong with your flying right now is that you're psyching yourself out. Happened to me, more than once!
 I spent about 100 hrs over 2+ years getting my PP, had to take my final checkride twice because I choked on navigation... but I'm damn proud of my PP, and learn more every time I go up that not a minute was really wasted, and all the mistakes taught me something eventually.

[Mobius]

I'm with Rotty on this, you have to know you can do what you are trying to do, you've probably heard this many times, but: If you ever doubt that you can do something, you probably will end up not being able to do it  Just know that you can do it, and keep your head in the game.

And for your trim question, you should always be trimmed, during the entire flight, even while you are on the runway, always.

I will go through my landing procedure, but you have to understand that it is probably different than yours, mostly because I fly a C172, and I don't know what you fly, but it doesn't really sound like a 172.  I start by pulling carb heat, setting throttle to 1700 RPMs, and dropping 10 degrees of flaps, and try to maintain around 80 kts when I am abeam the center of the runway on downwind.  When I get to the 45 degree point, I start to turn base, and drop another 10 degrees of flaps (down to 20 degrees), and try to hold 70-75 kts.  Once I turn final, around 400-500 AGL, I don't really make any other changes, unless I am obviously very high and I need to drop more flaps.  On final, I make sure to hold as close to 65 kts as I can, and make sure I am trimmed (you should be trimmed during the entire time in the pattern, but I think it is most important here), I even let go of the yoke sometimes while I am on approach just to be sure I am completely trimmed (my instructor used to make me do this, and it has become some-what of a habit).  After I am trimmed and at 65 kts, and am going to make the runway, I just land.  The most important thing I think, is to first get in the habit of actually flying and getting comfortable flying, instead of focusing on speeds and altitudes because the more you focus on this, the less you focus on actually flying the airplane, which is what you should be doing.

One thing I noticed you said was it was a gusty day, but you still used 40 degrees of flaps.  I always learned that if it is a windy day, you should never use more than 20 degrees of flaps, as that can often make you drop out of the sky while you are trying to flare, which is what it sounds like you are doing sometimes.  

I hope this has been helpful, and sorry I can't help you much on the stage check questions, as I never had a stage check, but just remember to focus mostly on flying the airplane the most, no matter what.

[bamair]

thanks mobius and rotty, yes its helpful i fly a piper cadet warrior pa28161 downwind for me is 98knts when you enter the pattern 10degrees of flaps once half way thru the downwind 93kts once you abeam your landing spot rpm 1750 start descending from 1000agl turn base about 60degrees from runway 83knts 25degrees of flaps on final 40degrees of flaps 63knts...today i hit the runway harder then i ever hit before it did scare me once or twice...it seemed like even my flight instructor said this..that everytime i was lined up center line and gliding perfect that a gust of wind would come and screw it all up for me...i have six hrs and a evaluation check ride to make up for this..i'm gonna try to keep my mind focused and everything..so far everything else has been progressing great of course with all the good advice i get, I was told once you get past your first solo its pretty much a breeze from here? I hope so...i enjoy flying so much that i can't imagine doing anything else the rest of my life I'm sure all of you agree...

[Brett_Henderson]

It's funny (and confusing) how many "right" ways there are to teach/learn flying.

My very first instructor was a young guy right out of a university program (141 on steriods) and was pretty rigid about where in the pattern you do what, and at what airspeed.

The senior instructor at this club (20,000 hours at that time) took me up once and all he could do was mumble under his breath, "I've got to change how these kids teach flying". His big thing was that you should fly the pattern as to ALWAYS be able to make the runway if the engine quit. Obviously... if you're at 80kias, 10* of flaps on downwind with the runway 45* behind you at 1000agl and a 15-20knot wind coming right down the runway.. you're gonna have to turn almost 180 and angle for the numbers to make pavement(and still might not).

When you pull the throttle and to what RPM... When you deploy what degree of flaps.. And what airspeed you maintain and where are ALL wind dependent (especially gusty wind).

In the scenario I just mentioned.. I'd be at Va with no flaps until on final... and would probably end up landing with just 10degrees of flaps (172).


For the record, Bamair... Landing hard in gusty winds is a LOT better than landing flat (even in a PA28 ). A lot less can go wrong. I've got a feeling the light is gonna go on soon for you. You're probaly closer than you think..

[Boss_BlueAngels]

Since your "plopping" onto the runway it makes me think it is an issue with your scan.

[beaky]

I was told once you get past your first solo its pretty much a breeze from here? I hope so...

Well, there will be a huge sense of relief once you solo,  and your confidence should be high even if your first solo is not perfect,  but there will be new challenges ahead. I can't say the tasks or workload get easier. But that confidence after the first solo will help you.

[bamair]

my next post will be a happy post , the one where i finally got to solo  ;D