Asiana Flight 214 San Francisco Crash, July 6

[OldAirmail]

NTSB says Asiana captain worried about visual landing

Though Lee was an experienced pilot with the Korea-based airline, he was a trainee in the Boeing 777.

NTSB investigator Bill English said Lee had less than 45 hours experience in the Boeing 777 and he last piloted a jet into San Francisco in 2004.

Lee told investigators that he realized others had been safely landing at San Francisco without the glide slope indicator, an array of antennas that transmits a signal into the cockpit, helping ensure the plane is landing correctly.

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Lee was nervous about attempting to land using "stick and rudder" flying skills. Pilots spend more time managing computer systems than manually flying planes, systems that are more precise and use less fuel than a human pilot.

When asked if he was concerned about his ability to perform the visual approach, Lee said "very concerned, yeah."

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NTSB investigator Bill English said Lee had less than 45 hours experience in the Boeing 777 and he last piloted a jet into San Francisco in 2004.


You know what bothers me? If the pilot was nervous about landing the plane, and had LESS than 45 hours experience in that plane WHAT ABOUT THE COPILOT? Was he an inflatable dummy?

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And then you have the vultures

"This pilot should never have taken off," said attorney Ilyas Akbari, whose firm represents 14 of the passengers. "The fact that the pilot was stressed and nervous is a testament to the inadequate training he received, and those responsible for his training and for certifying his competency bear some of the culpability for the tragedy of this crash."


I won't deny that much of it is probably true. But you always see these type of people (lawyers) setting the stage to sue everyone & anyone, right down to the mother who gave birth to the pilot.

Obviously she didn't breastfeed him often enough, and that too contributed to the crash. "What's that? She doesn't have any money? Well does she at least have a house? No? How about a wheelchair, they're worth money aren't they?"

[FlexibleFlier]

If the pilot was nervous about landing the plane, and had LESS than 45 hours experience in that plane WHAT ABOUT THE COPILOT? Was he an inflatable dummy?

Two points here:
1. Flight hours in type are not necessarily the appropriate criterion. It's more about the entire skill set and background in other aircraft of similar performance and complexity - "air sense" if you will. Reading further in the article:
"Another Asiana pilot who recently flew with Lee told investigators that he was not sure if the trainee captain was making normal progress and that he did not perform well during a trip two days before the accident. That captain described Lee as "not well organized or prepared," according to the investigative report." It seems to me that the system of proper evaluation in the training program failed.

2. There was a training instructor pilot in the cockpit. Even if ("if" is the important word) there was an ingrained unwillingness of the copilot to speak up, surely it was the job of the instructor pilot to not let the trainee get into trouble.

I was a fixed- and rotary-wing flight instructor (instrument, multi-engine and ATP), Part 135 Check Airman and FAA Designee. In almost all training and line check scenarios, the trainee is the Pilot in Command but it is also the responsibility of the instructor/safety pilot to make certain that the outcome of any maneuver is safe, even - or, especially - if the trainee fails to perform up to standard.

[OldAirmail]

Thanks for the info.

The one thing that I do know for sure is that it's a sad affair for all concerned. All the way down to the girls being run over by the fire trucks after they got out of the plane.

[PhantomTweak]

All the way down to the girls being run over by the fire trucks after they got out of the plane.

That was pretty unavoidable, and I do not fault the crashcrew for that at all. She was covered in foam, and therefor pretty mush invisible for all intents and purposes. You really can't fault crashcrew for hurrying to the scene of the crash (as trained!) over what to them was empty pavement covered with foam.

I'm not trying to snap at ya, just trying to offer some defense for the crashcrew's actions is all

Pat~

[logjam]

Apparently there's a cultural barrier too, in that the co-pilot's 2 bits of intuition was ignored due to rank. Something like having to bow lower if you are of lower status. Not flying Korean or Japanese in that case.

[expat]

Apparently there's a cultural barrier too, in that the co-pilot's 2 bits of intuition was ignored due to rank. Something like having to bow lower if you are of lower status. Not flying Korean or Japanese in that case.

That is a very good point. One that is reinforced by the crash report of the Korean Air 747 cargo crash in Stansted in 1999. It was noted that the captain was very overbearing to his co-pilots who in turn were afraid to make any comments on his cockpit actions. He was also ex-air force and was a high ranking officer. The culture said that his high rank transposed across to civilian aviation regardless of civilian cockpit experience...............

Matt

[OldAirmail]

All the way down to the girls being run over by the fire trucks after they got out of the plane.

That was pretty unavoidable, and I do not fault the crashcrew for that at all. She was covered in foam, and therefor pretty mush invisible for all intents and purposes. You really can't fault crashcrew for hurrying to the scene of the crash (as trained!) over what to them was empty pavement covered with foam.

I'm not trying to snap at ya, just trying to offer some defense for the crashcrew's actions is all

Pat~

No problem.



I've seen the results of a very brutal and bloody murder a long time ago. I could easily pull the switch on the two guys who did it.

But I would be personally devastated to have run over someone. Especially in those circumstances.

[PhantomTweak]

Me too!! Especially the Crashcrew types, who are there to save lives. I can't imagine how awfull they must have felt, or still feel about it, unavoidable or not! I just wanted to lay the blame for that where it belonged, on circumstance, not the firemen. I doubt they feel that way, but...

And yeah, after 10 years as an active duty Marine, pulling the trigger on someone, or even having to resort to hands or knives, doesn't really bother me much. The first one or two, yeah, but then it's just another event in the world, like a sunset or rainshower....Very hard to explain, sorry all...

Off for food! See y'all!

Pat~

[Fozzer]

.....and more news...>>>

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/acci ... NzAzMDkwS0

Paul.

[logjam]

Good link Paul. I still find it hard to believe pilots not being skilled enough to land visual carrying hundreds of trusting passengers. I hope this is not S.O.P?