Simviation Forums

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:22 pm**

Hi all. Now i know that in the UK it is illegal to undertake. However, i have a question. Picture the scene...im driving down the bus lane on friday at about 3.30pm (the bus lane is not to be used by cars between 7.30-9.00 and 16.00-18.30, so i am allowed to be in it) and the traffic on the inside lane (to my right) is doing 30-35mph (the limit is 40mph) and i am doing 40mph meaning i am undertaking all the vehicles not using the bus lane. am i wrong in doing this, and if i am...whats the point in letting traffic use the bus lane if i cant get past some idiot who refuses to read the road signs thus blocking al traffic behind him? how is it any different from a bus driving past them if the inside lane is not moving?

as a result of me using the bus lane, some wise guy thought it would be a good idea to put his headlights on and drive right up my back end...he got the fright of his life when i hit the brakes and stopped.

cheers 8-)

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:12 am**

"Technically" ........ yes you are undertaking and therefore it's illegal, however you could protest the arguement that the traffic in the other lane was forming a queue and therefore you are legally allowed to continue. If you were to be involved in an accident you might find that the technicallity is taken into account rather than the interpretation.

As for the ass sitting on your bumper with his lights on ...... hitting the brakes wasnt clever .... driving at a speed where you were only just passing the other traffic would have been far more annoying for him.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:22 am**

"Technically" ........ yes you are undertaking and therefore it's illegal,

Erm, wrong Eno - undertaking only applies on roads such as motorways & dual carriageways where a national speed limit applies, this incident was on a road with a 40mph limit & the bus lane wasn't within it's operational time restrictions, so as such the road should just be treated as a dual lane road - in which case it is recommended that that you use the most approprite lane when going straight ahead & remember that traffic could be passing on either side.

The jerk behind you with his lights on full beam was probably angry with you using a bus lane, without himself having any knowledge of the time restrictions that apply to that particular bus lane.

Cheers,

TSC.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:54 am**

A quote from the Highway code ...... still checking the Road Traffic Act for anything more specific.

139: Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should

* not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
* use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area and then start to move out
* not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
* move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
* take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
* give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
[glow=yellow,2,300] * only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left[/glow]
* give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would a car when overtaking (see Rules 188, 189 and 191.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:20 am**

Read rule 139 again eno - rule 139 primarily applies to overtaking a vehicle in front of you when you are using a road with only 2 lanes - one for each direction of traffic.

Where it states '* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left' - this is to advise you not to keep chopping & changing lanes when the traffic is queued.

For all we know, the cars to Vavavoom's right may well have all been needing to turn right a few hundred meters down the road.

TSC.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:41 am**

Ahhhh but as I read the post ...... the vehicles in the other lane were all doing 30-35mph and therefore the question is wether they constitute a queue. A police officer would, in order to get a prosecution, go with the techical definition that a queue is stationary or very slow moving as implied by the Oxford English Dictionary.

Therefore unless the traffic was moving extremely slowly any attempt to pass on the nearside would be considered as a violation of the traffic laws. (I'm still trying to find the proper definition under law in the Road Traffic Act.)

[quote]queue

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:12 am**

Undertaking aside, sorry but you deserve a kick in the slats for brake testing the guy behind and stopping. What would have happened if he had swerved into the other lane and hit an on coming car or pushed a passing car into the oncoming traffic.

Matt

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:37 pm**

Ahhhh but as I read the post ...... the vehicles in the other lane were all doing 30-35mph and therefore the question is wether they constitute a queue. A police officer would, in order to get a prosecution, go with the techical definition that a queue is stationary or very slow moving as implied by the Oxford English Dictionary.

Therefore unless the traffic was moving extremely slowly any attempt to pass on the nearside would be considered as a violation of the traffic laws. (I'm still trying to find the proper definition under law in the Road Traffic Act.)

Your right eno, the cars were said to be moving at 30 - 35mph, the grey area becomes at what point a flow of traffic becomes a queue, Unfortunately, there are lots of other factors to take into consideration with this, such as what junctions lie ahead, does the right-hand lane turn into a dedicated lane for right turns? Are cars likely to turn left across Vavavoom's lane without checking their mirrors first. Sometimes you find that car drivers simply don't know about time restrictions in bus lanes, as a result they all form a nice orderly (albeit, nicely moving) que in the right-hand lane - if these drivers are too stupid to make use of both lanes available to them, should Vavavoom be penalised for making progress without breaking the speed limit?

Unfortunatley, all of the above questions can't be answered without having actually been there, so the whole topic is left open to varying interpretations.

TSC.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:50 pm**

i have drawn a quick diagram to try to help

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:09 pm**

Well having had a look at your diagram Vavavoom, it seems that if you decide to use the bus lane during permitted times, then at some point you will still have to filter back into the flow of traffic on the right in order to get through the lights? In which case I would suggest that the reason the bus lane is open to all traffic at certain times is to aid traffic flow on that section of road - you may even find a 'Filter In Turn' sign just before the traffic lights. I would suggest using whichever lane is appropriate to make progress, without of course, breaking the speed limit, the bus lane has been opened for a reason so you may aswell use it to it's advantage - if others wish to que at a slower speed in another lane then let them.

However, as stated before, there is a lot of grey area over this, even the ADI's I have spoken to today agree that it is open to interpretation - thus the bloke following you with full beams on - I also suspect you have a hard time filtering back into the traffic flow, not your fault of course, the bus lane is available to them aswell, they just fail to make use of it.

TSC.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:26 pm**

See what I mean about interpretation ..... I would do the same as you Vavavoom ... the difference is I wouldn't draw attention to myself by trying to get someone to run up my backside.

I know that junction very well ........ I'm amazed that the traffic was moving at 30-35mph to be quite honest. I used to drive the Citylink buses between Glasgow and Edinburgh so flying up the inside of the traffic was a regular occupation even cutting in when the bus lane lights decided not to co-operate.

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