McLaren verdict.

[eno]

As my Brother in law has just pointed out ...... any information passed over at the beginning of the season is invalid within a month as they develop the cars so fast,  to gain any advantage there would have to be a constant flow throughout the season.

I would hazard a guess that this sort of information "exchange" is endemic in F1  the difference being this time, someone got caught.

[C]

As my Brother in law has just pointed out ...... any information passed over at the beginning of the season is invalid within a month as they develop the cars so fast,  to gain any advantage there would have to be a constant flow throughout the season.

I would hazard a guess that this sort of information "exchange" is endemic in F1  the difference being this time, someone got caught.

I'd have to agree - how many F1 employees change employment per year, for example Geoff Willis, now at Red Bull, who was key to Honda's previous success. Surely they'll have a lot of information and expertise formerly unique to their previous team stored in their grey matter...

[expat]

As my Brother in law has just pointed out ...... any information passed over at the beginning of the season is invalid within a month as they develop the cars so fast,  to gain any advantage there would have to be a constant flow throughout the season.

I would hazard a guess that this sort of information "exchange" is endemic in F1  the difference being this time, someone got caught.

I'd have to agree - how many F1 employees change employment per year, for example Geoff Willis, now at Red Bull, who was key to Honda's previous success. Surely they'll have a lot of information and expertise formerly unique to their previous team stored in their grey matter...

A good mates brother used to work for Toyota and then after a season jumped to what was Jaguar. He said that he had to sign a chit about trade secrets, and then gave me one of those "what do you think looks". You change teams and are going to say sorry guys I can not tell you. I do not think so.


Matt

[Nelson]

The most exciting season in years and the FIA has to go and ruin it. >:(

Unless they remove McLaren from the season and all their points (drivers + constructors), then I have to agree with , I think it Charolettes Dad , who said in years to come we will still remember the McLaren as the car it is, a Ferrari beater and a world champion (fingers crossed)


Just like Shumacher in '97 to Villenueve.  Did Shumacher come 2nd that season or last ?   You get my point.


Ron did nothing wrong other than not running to the FIA the moment he found out about his employees actions, which is a hard call , but in hindsight McLaren have not been proactive to prevent this decison being made.

Yes I agree and I smell an Anti-Ron campaign here.  >:(

Q:  How can they take points from the record books and not Poles, Fastest Laps and Wins ?   :-?

Oh, well
Long live McLaren !  ;)
Paul

[Craig.]

Give me a break on this anti ron stuff.
Mclaren have clearly broken the rules. Ron dennis on so many occasions has proven himself to be one of the most untrustworthy men in the pitlane, but unlike a team like Ferrari, who I will admit bend the rules and in some cases break them but they dont exactly hide the fact. Ron then covers it up by going on some emotional speech where he starts crying and complaining everyone is against him. Max Moselys comments today were by far the most telling yet of how things went down. Unfortunatly they are also the proof needed to show how inept the FIA are at consistant and logical punishments. This whole case as outlined in the evidence presented, then published by the FIA, wasn't just a couple of emails and texts saying oh wanna see some pictures of our latest wing. This was indepth information being passed around that Mclaren had absolutly no right to. Everything from brake biases to car balances and even race/ pitstop strategys for the first race or two. These are bits of information that were discussed by not only the two gentlemen mentioned from the begining but also its top driver and test driver. Ron claims he didn't know? So what, its become quite clear that influential and important members of the team did. As the boss of the team Ron takes responsibility for those individuals underneath him especially the drivers.
The FIA haven't ruined anything, if anything they have at least allowed the most important part to the fans carry one, when truthfully they had every right to kick them out of the championship. Alonso especially.

[Nelson]

ok your right...

..but we're still going to win the championship !  ;D 8-)

Point taken, I am totally ashamed to be a McLaren fan....    What and this stuff doesn;t happen all the time ?


 

[Craig.]

Nelson, i'll agree on your point about the points and position thing but not the wins and results being changed. Yes they should have taken away schumi's 97 entire season in respect to his keeping his position in the championship. was rather stupid.

As a side note, Ron dennis has hinted that Mclaren wont appeal, however Jean todt has also pointed out, the reason for that is because the penalties from that appeal could end up even worse for mclaren, and they wouldn't be allowed to make a case in the court as it would have to be left for the lawyers alone. I think Ron knows after Max's comments this weekend its safer to just take this one on the chin and not risk your drivers getting kicked out too.

[eno]

Craig .... it's rather obvious you don't like Ron Dennis  ;D  

However I would hazard a guess that Ferrari, Renault, Spyker, BMW, etc are all just as guilty, the difference being nothing is in writing and their team members don't attempt to bribe them when things aren't going their way.  
Ron should have been commended for taking the action  he did when Alonso attempted to hold him to ransom. Alonso should have had the book thrown at him and in theory could have faced criminal charges for attempted blackmail. Yes banning Alonso would have ruined a close season but it would have sent a clearer message to drivers and teams alike.  Max Mosely said in the ITV interview that this incident would be remembered because the FIA didn't do enough to punish McLaren.. NO it will be remembered for the fact that they didn't do enough to punish the drivers/team members that were directly involved. What incentive have team bosses got to report wrong doing by their team members, none, because the team will take the hit not the individuals involved. Hamilton had it right in his interview ... although he didn't directly say it .... Alonso was showing no team loyalty as he didn't even bother to turn up for the hearing.
Alonso is turning out to be another Schui (without the driving skill).... unfortunately he went to the wrong team for his Prima Donna attitude to be taken seriously.

[Craig.]

I'll disagree about the schumi comment there for one reason. Schumi made it his priority to have a close relationship with his mechanics and the team as a whole. He would buy them gifts, take them to dinner and throw parties for them of his own free doing. They were at the end so loyal to him that he could have said jump off a cliff and they would have done so.
Otherwise yes they are very much alike in the sense that, both would do anything it takes to win, Senna prost and to a lesser extent mansell were all the same. You have to be ruthless to win a title. Just look how lewis has dropped off from FA now he's no longer getting Alonso's setup info. Given a few years experience LH will be just as good as FA in all areas, but right now Lewis is too much of the nice guy to win. Damon Hill was the same, it wasn't until he started to really get stuck in and doing things for himself instead of the old stiff upper lip act that he won a title.