S-Combo gone payware for FS2004:(

[loomex]

I like to call free to payware, greedware because thats basicly what it is There are people in the sim world that put 100's of hours into building just a plane. Meljets are the best example. They are not in it for money, they are in it for the fun and enjoyment. Are there add-ons out there worth the money? Maybe. It becomes a matter of opinoin,  is it worth it? For me and I know for a lot of you, just buying FS2004 took a chunk of  a paycheck. Paying 25usd for a 1mb program just is not worth it Just my little view.
I step off the soap box for the next person

Chris

[Scottler]

Loomex, I agree completely.  (And I love the term "greedware"...that's now part of my vernacular!)

MelJet is a perfect example of someone who contributes to the hobby because its his passion.  He creates arguably the best aircraft for F$.  The detail and artistry that go into his projects are a clear example of someone who LOVES flying.  You can't put a pricetag on that.

[Earl Hilton]

Lemme see if I understand the concept here.......if I buy a new car with just the very basics like stock tires, am/fm radio, small motor, etc...then Goodyear should GIVE me their best tires, Bose should GIVE me their top of the line in-dash DVD/CD player, and I shoud get a FREE upgrade to the most powerful engine...all because these companies have a passion for automobiles??? Ok...I get it now.
IMHO, FS2004 is a good product, with the basics included, i.e. the FS map (which totally stinks compared to FSNAV), the basic weather interface (which is weak compared to WeatherCenter and it's intergrated radar), the ATC with speech (which is boring in contrast to S-Combo's added ATC sounds and many other voice/sound enhancements), and of course you can't access the "guts" of FS without the FSUIPC interface which allows all the other goodies to work right.
Although I get no joy in having to spend my money on what I would LIKE to be free....I accept it as part of the hobby that I enjoy. If you feel you should't have to spend another dime on your flight simming hobby.....try changing to another hobby, like skydiving (I'm sure the airplane rental and such are all free), classic car restoration (yeah....you can get all your parts and paint for free), boating (after you get your free yacht, surely someone will give you free fuel and maintenance for life). Or, perhaps you can find a real airplane for free, and certainly there's an instructor out there that will get you certified for free, and Garmin will fully equip your new airplane for free 'cause they are a company that is surely in it just for the pure passion of flight navigation!
In a nutshell, quit griping about people charging a bit for their work and contributions to YOUR hobby, spend a little more on FS, fasten your harness, get ATC clearance, and truly enjoy the COMPLETE flying experience!

[Scottler]

Hey newbie, you're misunderstanding.

We're not discussing corporate add-ons in general.

[Earl Hilton]

Geee...what a nice welcome for a newbie......which FYI I am not...having been an FS enthusiast since Bruce Artwick first released FS. I however have generally not POSTED in many forums primarily due to the knowledge that there will be rude and arrogant responses like yours. So what you're saying is that if I invite you to dinner a few times, I should then be obligated to feed you forever for free? Many a small (and quite successful) business, found its roots in initial free offerings (i.e. the home recipes served to friends who then encourage the cook to open a restaraunt because he/she has a successful product), the mechanic who always helped his friends at no cost maintain their car and realized he could also make a modest living by doing what he loves to do for a living.
My point is that although these add-ons started as free, they have EVOLVED into something more. It takes more time to continue to support them, more time to continue to add features and debug, more effort to constantly adapt to M$'s changing interfaces etc. So therefore, why shouldn't these developers get more than nothing for their efforts?
However, I also completely agree with many of the other posts that if their price is considered greed, then don't buy the product. The shame here is that it may (I said MAY, not WILL) discourage other talented individuals from ever trying their hand at improving the sim experience for OTHERS (not just themselves) to enjoy. I have to wonder just how many hours of actual sim flying time some of these programmers get to enjoy with their own products after spending hours programming, testing debugging, answering support e-mails and forum posts and doing whatever they do for a full time job. Seems that maybe WE actually get more sim pleasure from their efforts than they do at times.

But, as Dennis Miller says...."That's just my opinion....I could be wrong".

P.S. No, I am not in any way affiliated with ANY software programmer, sales, development, beta testing, yadayada....I just strongly support the american right to free enterprise and the spirit of entrepeneurship.

P.P.S. Thank you for your concern about me being humiliated, but I will NEVER find myself humiliated be exercising my right to enjoy my hobby, "spew" my opinions, and share my thoughts with others. The great thing about the forums is that if you don't like a person's opinions, you can simply scroll down to the next posting, or as you have every right to do, counter that opinion with your own.

[chops]

Hey now

To be fair to the above poster, the general opinion on this board regarding all payware is largely negative.  

The only payware that really steams me is the stuff that is laughably low quality, IE any aircraft made by abacus that I have come across in the past 5 years.  

[Scottler]

But what you're failing to comprehend is that a lot of the F$ market (wonder how it got that nickname?) is comprised of teens.  Oftentimes, these people are not yet old enough to work.  This means it's yet another thing for the parents of these enthusiasts to have to spend money on.  (Not "have to", but you get my meaning I hope.)

I also support free enterprise and the entrepreneurial spirit.

However, when it comes to an add on, especially some of the smaller ones, I don't think there should be ANYONE, private or corporate, that charges $35 or $40 for it.

Have I purchased some quality add-ons that were not available as freeware?  Yes.  I'm not going to say that I haven't.

But if guys like Melvin Raffi can do it, and not make a dime, surely everyone else can as well.

I'm not trying to argue with you, Earl, I'm just trying to get you to see that it shouldn't always be about the money...that's precisely where the majority of our societal problems lie today.

Since you ended with a quote, I'll do so as well.

"Money is the root of all evil."

[chops]

Just to play the devil's advocate here . . . .

Remember when FSTipster gave us that great RTW panel for free?

Isn't it sad that we lost him because in the poor economy, he had to consider his internet access an un-needed luxury?

Had he charged, say $5 for the panel (and I would have paid it . . . .come on people I pay that much for 1 beer now and when I was a teen I spent that in a flash on one extra value meal) maybe he could have been able to stay active on the board, spending the money he made from something he created in his hobby on an expense of his hobby.

[Earl Hilton]

Thanks Chops for the example. it points out another aspect of the hobby not just for us "end-users" but for the developers as well.
Hyperion...I do fully agree that the PRICE for some of the basic add-ons is a bit out there.....but to me the concept is sound and fair. I just tire of folks collectively bashing payware as a whole, in that certainly some of it is worth every penny and maybe then some. And being a parent, I can certainly agree that with many of the users not even having incomes, they turn to their parents. But, I also know that I just spent almost $300 on my FOUR year old for a TV and DVD player and entertainment center for his room.....so I actually wish he was into simming already which would have been cheaper, since we have a second 'puter he could use.
For the record, I have probably spent too much on my "hobby" (just ask my wife!) as I now own the following:
Ready for Pushback 747
Capt Sim Legendary 727
WeatherCenter
FSNAV
FSUIPC
Panel Studio
S-Combo 2004
ADS Bell 407 Careflight
EZ-Landmark 2002 and 2004
Airport & Scenery Designer
Architect 2000
FS Scenery Enhancer

So, along with the Cray supercomputer (well....for as much as I paid for it it should be) to run all that..I myself am pretty tapped out and probably will not be shopping for ANY payware for quite some time....regardless of price/value.......

[Scottler]

We're basically saying the same things, Earl.  (I think.)  I'm not saying that all payware is evil, because it isn't.  Hell, F$ is payware, if you think about it.

But what I oppose is the sudden change from a freeware application to a $30 application, seemingly overnight.

If a private developer wants to start charging a few dollars for a tiny program, so be it.  I've donated to those situations myself.

But to suddenly require your fanbase (ie your customers) to cough up what may be to some a large or medium amount of money, after the loyalty they've shown you is wrong on so many levels.

[chops]

My previous post about tipster was made with no knowledge of his passing.  My condolances go out.  I was under the impression he was on a break from the internet.

[Nexus]

Allright, Hyperion talked about Melvin Rafi and his Meljets, which are btw OUTSTANDING.
The details and the overall superb modelling makes his aircrafts incredible...on the OUTSIDE.

Inside we find the general dull and boring 777/747 panel...I don't know about you, but I don't fly in the spotplane view...I'm in the cockpit. The payware Boeings and Airbuses usually have one thing in common aside from the detailed exterior:The panel is almost a replica of the real thing. Fully working Flight management systems, detailed ND's, enhanced AP and LOADS of other features, I could go on forever basically

[Scottler]

I also fly in the pit, and a decent panel is nice to look at.  But a few posts before Nexus' last post is a good example of how someone can create a decent panel and release it for free.

[Ronnie]

Earl, you have a point. BUT, the fact of the matter is that FS costs $55.00 to begin with and charging five dollars or so is understandable, but, some of these planes cost half what the sim costs and it comes to a point that it gets rediculous. Where does it stop? Used to, there was no such thing as 'payware', so I guess we have been spoiled, and I think what started out as a way to make a few extra bucks for someone soon turned into an unbelievable price-gouge, almost overnight. Especially with the release of FS2004. Guys that used to make great freeware now charge a fairly outrageous price for things that were once free. It's all about the almighty dollar. And I, for one, can't afford them due to the fact that I am only thirteen and have a very limited amount in my piggy-bank. So, I don't really think it is fair to charge for some unofficial add-on to a game. I guess people don't realise that some people don't have the mone to buy this stuff.

[Nexus]

Earl, you have a point. BUT, the fact of the matter is that FS costs $55.00 to begin with and charging five dollars or so is understandable, but, some of these planes cost half what the sim costs and it comes to a point that it gets rediculous. Where does it stop? Used to, there was no such thing as 'payware', so I guess we have been spoiled, and I think what started out as a way to make a few extra bucks for someone soon turned into an unbelievable price-gouge, almost overnight. Especially with the release of FS2004. Guys that used to make great freeware now charge a fairly outrageous price for things that were once free. It's all about the almighty dollar. And I, for one, can't afford them due to the fact that I am only thirteen and have a very limited amount in my piggy-bank. So, I don't really think it is fair to charge for some unofficial add-on to a game. I guess people don't realise that some people don't have the mone to buy this stuff.

So, what's your opinion on expansions to games like morrowind, warcraft 3; Diablo 2 etc?
A payware aircraft is reminiscent of an expansion. At least when you buy the jets and gets all the goodies inside. Same platform (as a game expansion) but LOADS of new features.

The latest aircraft I bought costed me 40 bucks...WC3: The frozen throne (expansion to warcraft) retail is 50 dollars where I live.

It's just the FS community who is spoiled with freebees. Heck when I started FS back in 1997 the graphics were crap, and it was not hard to make aircrafts, cause the detail level had to be sparse.
Nowadays it's a completely different setting. Today's monster computers can handle extensive details and advanced aircraft programming. All that takes time and and recquires lots of knowledge.

I show my appreciation of all the hard work developers put down on their stuff, by purchasing their products.

Simple as that.