Paywares.. Paywares and more Paywares..

[asnamara]

Paywares have become a main part of FS2002, there are more paywares for FS2002 than there were for FS2000...
And there probably will be more payware for FS2004.

Some of these paywares don't even get close to the quality of designs by freeware designer, and we can quickly see that these very good freeware designers are turning to payware, and i can understand them, "why do some crap paywares designers make money, while i'm releasing the best quality designs for free" that is perfectly understandable.

And more and more, we see great freeware designer going payware. Today, some of you may have heard, Peter Dowson, the author of FSUIPC, has gone payware for his module.

I think that this is the end of high-quality, fancy, eye-candy, freeware designs. FSUIPC is probably the most essential program with FS2002, and now that it is payware, many freeware designers will probably follow.

I do buy payware, but how much can one person buy...
Buying the whole Lago collection will probably cost you a few hundred bucks..
The MiG-21 i got.. 25$... that's a massive price, half or 1/3 of FS2002 itself, that's shocking..
FS2002 is probably the most expensive thing out there, because of the payware..

So I think I'll stop getting those, as there are more and more, and if i don't put a stop to buying it, and always want to get the latest, i won't be able too for FS2004...

So I'll get Lock-On Modern Air Combat, the game play will last more than a year, and there's a campaign designing thingy, so probably it will be unlimited game play without paywares...
And i even might skip FS2004...


well okay, that's just my opinion of where the FS world is going, it's going "payware; more payware, less freeware"

Asnamara

P.S: Big-Up, Respect and Thank you to all Freeware designers!!

P.S.S: okay that's all, sorry for long post

[Ronnie]

I totally agree, Asnamara. Most of it is unaffordable for me since I don't have a steady income. The only payware I buy is Dreamfleet and F1, and that's because I know they produce quality products. But, more and more freeware guys are going payware, some of which should NOT charge money for their products, but none-the-less do. I think it is saddening, but is, unfortunately happening.

[BFMF]

FSUIPC is going payware?!

The world just became a darker place

[asnamara]

darker indeed

I'm sorry to have to announce this, but with effect from the next version of FSUIPC and WideFS both will cease being freeware. This is following the failure of the donations scheme, which will therefore be closed.

Arrangements are being made for two scenarios:

1. Full user facilities and support for all FSUIPC applications, available to all users who pay for full FSUIPC registration.

2. Individual application accreditation which would be paid for by the developer or supplier of the application. This would give users full use of the application with FSUIPC, but there would be no user facilities in the latter unless opted for via scenario 1 above.

Freeware applications will be subject to special arrangements and accreditation -- which may possibly expire and need renewing, by the author, from time to time (maybe annually, maybe longer).

WideFS will only work upon payment and registration. My other modules and programs will remain freeware for the time being.

Pricing and other details will be published when finalised, but will be very reasonable. Folks who have donated reasonable amounts already will get free registrations, but these will have to be applied for within a certain time (maybe three months).

Developers and suppliers needing further details should write to me forthwith and I will send them a full explanatory document. Write to
petedowson@btconnect.com. Note that this email address is ONLY for specific developer support. All normal support requests must still come to the forum.

PLEASE NOTE. There are currently no more details available for end users. Only developers need to start to become involved now. The software is not yet finished. No licenses nor access keys will be issued before the software itself is finalised, and that will be something like the end of July or during August 2003.

Thank you,

Regards,

Pete Dowson

source

[Oz]

I agree Asnamara. its quite a pity really that even freeware groups and designers are going payware. Soon we will have to depend not on those 'design groups', but on the people who actually have a concience. In my own opinion making payware add-ons is illogical. You waste a lot of time on them but thats not an excuse; most of these designers work on the model a bit, then save and send it to others to keep on working. I must say its a great way to make money but its wrong. I think the only reasonable way you can do payware and its right is when the money benefits a specific organization such as the MAAM B-25 and the PSS Vulcan. because of your donations they can make great planes fly again and you actually get something in return. Now with people that seriously need money quick cause theyre in some money troubles and all i think maybe i can understand...but they should go get a job. Great freeware aircraft out there like the Meljet 777/747 (I doubt Mel will go payware) the FSD T-38, the GroundCrew He111, and the DSB Eurofighter and Tornado take much time to complete. But those people who make it freeware do it cause they dont find a moral point in payware and they just wanna please the sim comunity. I must agree some freeware designers just make the plane cause they really wanna see it in the FS world for themselves, but the people who work hours and hours designing these freeware stuff for the simmers out there; those are the blessed ones. I tell ya i see some payware thats like $30 and im mad;with 30 bucks i can buy CFS3 retail. But as said before eventually freeware will basically cease to exist as people notice they can make lots of money off of it. But maybe thats the day when people who buy payware will notice they aint gonna waste their money and these payware designers get out with just a few dollars from the foolish ones. And then people will realize that if they keep spending money on payware they'll run outta money.Thats why i havent bought payware; cause i think its foolish and ridiculous. Cause with at least $20 i can buy an entire new game. Now, i like planes but i know the value of money and i know the value of things. So as Asnamara said. My hat's off to all the freeware designers. Thanks for givin us these great add-ons

[SilverFox441]

It's got nothing to do with morals...unless of course you want to talk about the morals of the people who whine about it. Nobody forces you to purchase...the sim does come with planes after all! You are not entitled to the results of somebody else's efforts for free...despite what the "Napster Generation" might think.

It has to do with the greatly increasing complexity of people expectations. It also has to do with the thousands of man-hours that go into making these things. You should also remember that some of our current payware designers were never hobbyists...they entered thise feild as 3D modellers looking for a revenue stream.

The few free groups that have gone payware have attracted a lot of press...but take a look at how many new groups there actually are. You'll find that less than half are from the hobbyist realm.

You don't like payware...don't buy.

If you don'y buy...don't whine about not getting payware quality.

One more thing...

If you don't want to pay you must NEVER ask for a designer to design a plane. By asking you are demonstrating a demand...demand is what payware designers are there for. Hobbyists build what they like.

[asnamara]

SilverFox441,
calm down a bit
okay, i get your point.. but i do buy some payware, those that are worth the price, and i absolutely do not say that payware is better than freeware in terms of quality, simply coz that isn't true..

Name any payware that is better than the Falcon 50 by Yannick Lavigne.. It'll be very hard, coz of all the payware i use, Falcon 50 beats them all in terms of quality.

About the demand you are right ... Reason i bought the MiG-21 for example: i love the plane!!
couldn't resist..

do i feel ripped of after buying that mig-21? of course i do! could have bought a freakin' game... However, do i regret buying it? no, of course not, it's really great.

If you don'y buy...don't whine about not getting payware quality.

My point in this post was to criticize those payware groups that go payware for unclear reasons, with crap products... (Abacus is totally crap for example... Bought one of there products, was appaled.. wouldn't even download it if it were freeware)... Lots of companies are like that, they produce crap and get money for it...


Donation-wares are fine with me, at least its made by people with a passion for aviation, not money. If they have money as the main motive to produce paywares, then the quality will not be the best possible...
Only real passion for the plane will produce somehting great.


sorry, might have been to long-winded again

[Oz]

Number 1

I am not whining. This is my opinion. You have yours.

Number 2

If you don'y buy...don't whine about not getting payware quality.

I dont think many people 'whine' or complain about not getting payware quality. They simply delete it off their hard drive and thats that.

Number 3

Nobody forces you to purchase...the sim does come with planes after all!

I am fully aware of that and did not state otherwise.

Number 4

If you don't want to pay you must NEVER ask for a designer to design a plane. By asking you are demonstrating a demand...demand is what payware designers are there for. Hobbyists build what they like.

Really?? Then why is there an 'Aircraft Wanted' forum?  There are people out there who really just want to please simmers. Not many of them, but still some. It is not a demand but rather a suggestion or idea. When you demand something you will fight until you get it and wont take any excuses. Now lets not start an argument here.  Lets freely state our opinions without anyone having something bad to say about the other guys reply. If you got something to say relating the topic, then say it without directly addressing anyone. I have nothing against you Silverfox but lets do things the right way -- without problems.

[visitor]

This tread needs to be moved to "PAYWARE"
along with several others in raw screen shots
so the rest of us can get on with enjoying
our selfs in the forums!
I normally don't speak up in these, [DEBATES ?]

Thank you for your time!

X

[asnamara]

cool
i didn't see there was a new payware forum..  ;D

can one you mods move it there? thanks, sorry for the hassle..

[SilverFox441]

Asnamara...I am calm.

I just get upset by people who complain about the "morals" or "concience" of payware designers. That wasn't you. Payware desingers are people...some of which are my friends.

I do understand that there is a threat to our much-valued way of getting freebies. Maybe I just don't care as much about it as some do...after all, if I really want something I will just sit down and build it. It may not be perfect...but I'll be able to fly it.

There is a distressing amount of low-quality payware available...I'll grant that. Some of the stuff is worse than what I build for free...and I'm not happy with a lot of my stuff.

What really is annoying is the transparent motives of some...they will complain about payware and the way this is disregarding the "values" of the community...but when you read what they say it is very apparent that they just want the stuff free...they inevitably decend into a complaint that they can't afford all the new planes they want. News Flash...either can I! I make decisions based on what I want most. I'd bet you wouldn't hear a peep from them one way or the other if they had a hook into getting the stuff for free.

Payware better than Yannick's Falcon...easy...but very recent. The new Beech 400A by Eaglesoft. I bought this one and am thrilled...just wish it was a Falcon 20F...then I could have taken a plane of my "to build" list. My own repaint of this plane in the fictional scheme of the Canadian Raytheon distributor:

Oz:

Never start commenting on somebody else's "morals" or "concience", or lack thereof and then tell somebody else not to start an agument and to keep it civil. If you want it kept civil then leave commentary such as that out of it. It wasn't applicable in the first place and it invites a similar response.

I'm sure you also realized that my statement of "demand" was in the market sense...as in, there is a demand for this subject to be modelled. It was not intended to be used in the imperative sense.

[Oz]

[quote]Oz:

Never start commenting on somebody else's "morals" or "concience", or lack thereof and then tell somebody else not to start an agument and to keep it civil. If you want it kept civil then leave commentary such as that out of it. It wasn't applicable in the first place and it invites a similar response.

[visitor]

i didn't see there was a new payware forum..  

can one you mods move it there? thanks, sorry for the hassle

It's the last forum on the list!

asnamara;
You're welcome

X

[logjam]

This is my opinion: " If you don't like the pay ware, don't buy!" I appreciate all the free downloads and all the work that goes into design and all that. However, it costs a lot of time, and who can blame designers for selling or asking for donations to run a web site that supports them? I go green with envy at the Lago and Dream fleet models, but I'm really happy with most of the free downloads and have hours of fun.

[packercolinl]

I wonder if the advent of COF has prompted some moves in the payware direction due to noncompatibility to COF and a large(perceived)market in FS2K2 that won't be buying COF.
There have been some huge efforts out there,it seems,to produce aircraft that now will not pay off in 2K2 and will ,as things go, be offered later.
Speculation only!