What a rip off

[wealthysoup]

[quote]If every aircraft in FS was up to the quality of PMDG then its likely that only the very well off would be able to afford it.
A. Because the initial unit price would be in the 100's ($/

[bartender]

I also agree guys! Payware company's are just to damn greedy now days. But it does take alot of time to make them.  I think paying for an A/C for 60 bucks is damn near shamefull if you ask me. Take the Captain Sim C130 for an exe. $60.00 for that plane plus you gotta pay for all the other upgrade packages. Pleeeease Sapre me the money.....not saying the C130 from CS is mad or anything, I flown it before on someones comp and it's pretty cool. But to go out and buy something for that much money and most of the people on here go to school most of their time or are at work.

Quote:

Posted by: Gunny04       Posted on: Dec 10th, 2005, 3:05pm
Piracy will be around as long as computers will be, But personally 40-60 bucks a plane, When I can buy a game for the same I'm shocked, Only reason I get payware is friends/Family ask me what I want and buy it..... But maybe payware comps should take Alphasim for example! Cheers, Gunny (payware is too damn expencive sometimes)

EDIT: I think Payware companies rip the people off, but just my oppinion and nothing more.......

Gunny I agree with you 100% man. Alphasim....phwww please!!!!

   Me I dont buy payware at all because Im either Flying at school or Working at the AirPort. So yeah

[Tweek]

Gunny I agree with you 100% man. Alphasim....phwww please!!!!

Unless I'm mistaken, I think you missed the point about what he was saying about AlphaSim. Most of their aircraft are very cheap in comparison with other payware companies. Also, the range of aircraft they have is much greater than any payware company I know.

These are the numbers of aircraft each of these companies have for sale (excluding unreleased aircraft):
note, these figures could be wrong, I'm just counting, by 'hand', what is displayed on the product pages.

AlphaSim - 77
Aerosoft - 20
Captain Sim - 7
PMDG - 5 (if you include different variations of the aircraft)
RealAir - 2

I have to also agree with Gunny, by saying that AlphaSim should be taken for example. A great choice of aircraft, bound to suit any military aviator, and for much less than other payware developers would charge. Most of their aircraft are released at around $24.00 (

[Felix/FFDS]

One has to understand that payware companies, like anything you buy, is a balance between quantity (number of different models offered) and quality.

I will not complain about a payware company's pricing decision, a function of recouping costs vs what the market will bear, and WHAT is the principal target market.

Can you compare Alphasim (77 models) with RealAir (2 models)?  Etc.

Ultimately, payware companies are supported - or not - by the target consumers.

Obviously, those that criticize payware companies are not willing to part with their hard-earned cash for something they can find reasonable freeware alternatives (and sometimes, even better) - (I'd be hard pressed to buy a Beech 18 with Milton's version around).

Have people been "burned" on payware?  Probably (definitely?).

Just remember that in many cases, payware is produced by the same people that bring you freeware...

[Gary R.]

I think the customer base for FS is fairly well established by now.  It is definatly not your X-box 360 crowd.  Most of them wouldn't have the patience to work with FS and learn procedure, navigation and techiques.  Also, there's no winning and loosing save for not crashing your flight.  With that established, I think it would be a right time for MS to amp up the product with more in depth default aircraft, better flight modeling and in general, more immersion in all areas.  The customer base being fairly well established would already own the hardware to run it effectively.  I can't speak for everyone but I know I would be pleased and probably not seeking add-ons either freeware or payware if the default planes were only just 80% implemented.  Hey, there's some things that are pointless to simulate on a PC sim (presurization, air-conditioning, etc).  An FMC with basic lateral navigation abilities, or even target altitudes for waypoints, a Garminish GPS that allowed you to enter the whole flight plan rather than merely direct-to.  A little bit better systems implemetation.  Hey, apu's aren't hard, freeware designers do it.  What about more ATC flexiblity?  There's a lot that could be improved on without incurring a lot of additional developement cost or even a higher spec machine to run it on.  There's always going to be payware and freeware no matter what MS does with the main platofrm.  It would be impossible to incorporate everything.  But, it is safe to say that unless MS want's to make the platform that much more in-depth, they should really remove the "as real as it get" catch phrase.

[Felix/FFDS]

From what I've seen and heard, I think that MS is going more for environment enhancement - visuals, overall geographic accuracy - next time around rather than major changes in flight dynamics.  Their own research has shown over and over that the flight sim enthusiast basically uses 3rd party content (scenery, aircraft, utilities) whether freeware or payware.  A few planes may be included, others may be dropped (as happened to the Corsair and Sopwith Camel of old).  I think that they recognize that the default planes are used more by developers to provide the "base" for models, rather than actual simming.

THey may add a few new types of planes, but overall, I think they're going for environment enhancement this time around.

[FS_Pilot]

There definitly need to be work done to make the program more framerate friendly. As a Helicopter simmer there needs to be changes made to the ATC to include helicopter approaches to helipads instead if having to do standard aeroplane approaches. As an Aussie i would also like to see the addition of the millibar scale option for altimeters and to include this option in ATC readback.
FS_Pilot

[Gunny04]

My point about alphasim is Cheap airplanes, yet quality that is improving, just think, if there was PMDG Quality for say maybe 15 rather then 50? Cheers, Gunny

[Felix/FFDS]

My point about alphasim is Cheap airplanes, yet quality that is improving, just think, if there was PMDG Quality for say maybe 15 rather then 50? Cheers, Gunny

I think that overall "mass" payware quality is improving  (especially as to what I'm seeing coming down the pipeline that's not been released.)

[Tweek]

I think that overall "mass" payware quality is improving  (especially as to what I'm seeing coming down the pipeline that's not been released.)

I agree with you there. It's the same in all fields, payware or freeware. I suppose the developers are getting more experienced, and they can churn out higher quality addons (much to the benefit of everyone ). I think AlphaSim are most notable for this. I know that they aren't (or weren't) renowned for quality addons about a year ago, but they seem to have picked it up a great deal, recently.
I personally do not own any AlphaSim products (or any payware aircraft for that matter), but I can tell from feedback on their forums, and most definitely from screenshots, that their products have improved. Of course, from screenshots, you can only see the quality of the model, but that's an improvement I like to see

One of Alpha's first FS2004 models. Looks like a pretty bog standard freeware aircraft now. (then again, this screenshot does look to be taken in FS2002).


And one of their most recent aircraft, the F-8 Crusader. A much richer looking model, the improvement clearly shown.


We'll just have to see how high the bar will have been raised in 5 years time!

[Felix/FFDS]

We'll just have to see how high the bar will have been raised in 5 years time!

And you've just posed an interesting problem.

How many "newbies" are going to want to even enter the freeware content creation field as the bar gets raised higher and higher?

Right now, there are only a few developers, payware or freeware, that can create a full aircraft single-handedly!  Extreme detail in the outside and inside visual models, as well as spot on dials, knobs, levers, buttons, etc. are de rigeur....  What's a newbie to do?

[Ivan]

[quote]Right now, there are only a few developers, payware or freeware, that can create a full aircraft single-handedly!

[Tweek]

On the other hand Mike Stone is cranking them out like sausages... overall nice models, but IMO he should find a good texture maker.

Yeah, textures can really make an aircraft look so much better. I downloaded textures for Mike's Bristol Britannia, which made the visual model 10x better than with the original textures. Adding a worn look with dirt and staining makes a repaint look much better, too. Much better than a slab of colour applied to the aircraft.

[Felix/FFDS]

Only freeware developers that do that are
Project Tupolev
David Maltby
Milton & Co
Veneaviones

Ivan - you've made my point.  

None of the four groups listed above is a *single* individual.  Milton is more than capable of creating a quality model all by himself, but even he works with a few others to finish off his great models.  Dave Maltby, again, produces quality all by his own, but he also collaborates with select others to get that final perfection.

[SilverFox441]

I'm currently trying my first high quality "all by myself" plane...

I had thought I was within a week or two of release a little while ago...err...wait, that was March. Even then the release won't be nearly payware quality...it will simply be good freeware.

I think it would be hard to find any talented designer that wouldn't side with the payware guys on how to value a new creation.

Until the day when somebody sticks a gun in your face and says "Pay up and fly this" you have a choice.

You may not like the choice because you really want a particular subject, but you do have a choice.

Actually, you have another choice. Flight Simulator Design Shop 3 is reasonably priced. Pay that one flat fee and you can have any plane you want for nothing but time.