Simviation Forums

I am very dumb! After half a year of flying, i still can't land properly. May i now how to land using ILS?

Let's see if I can help.

Hey Yoda,
  What if at a mile out, it is CAT III and you can't see the runway? Would you still kill the AP and pray? Or would you keep the AP APPR settings and just let "George" fly an auotoland?

Well, you're not allowed to disengage the AP and land manually in CATII conditions, heck in the real world you'd need atleast 2 autopilots to legally make a CAT III autolanding. Problem is, the default planes have just one autopilot and it's not designed to actually flare the aircraft for you so I guess it's up to you to do whatever suits your needs

In your case, Personally, I'd turn off the AP (screw the FAA/JAA...)but keep the Flight director on if you wish...doesn't really matter, A/T engaged. But that's just me...I never trust the default autopilot

CAT IIIC is MIL app's only, and for commercial if no other options exist. There was an AA pilot  that tried to do one at Little Rock a few years ago in x-winds gusting to 87 MPH( no Sh**), landed long, and over-ran to the bank of the Arkansas river. Killed 8 pax, but he did'nt mind, because he was dead too.

Yoda, I dont know where you got that information from, but all I get is "fly straight in on runway blah blah blah." ATC never mention vectors, and that Nav thing is a load of bullshit..mine does sod all. And wheres this glideslope thing,  because I dont see anything. And lastly, ATC always leave it til the last minute to tell me which runway i'm landing on, which is f*cking annoying.

Yoda ~ As a six week newbie, I found your ILS pocket procedures to be flawless.  Thanks for the info.    

One thing:  Are we always to trust the localizer?  
On about half of my approaches, it either comes up short of the runway or brings me in to the left of the markers. (KDCA/01 is a good example) I find myself having to take-over manually at about 3-5 miles out to avoid making a mangled mess of my flyplane.  Funny how it seems to be at the same airports.  (KDCA & KSBA are two I recall)  



Thanks  

Yup, in 99% of the cases the localizer will guide you to the centreline or atleast very close to it

But funny you mention Reagan National, since the runway 19 probably is the trickiest instrument approach of all major US airports.

Yes, the localizer is offset by some 40 degrees (rwy 19 has a heading of 184 mag, while the localizer is course 147 mag.) so a sharp right turn is required to align with the runway

However, runway 01 has a ILS/DME CAT.II system installed, so it's not possible that the LOC for 01 is offset by a big margin...kinda takes away the purpose of autolandings

What do you mean with "Localizer comes up short of the runway"?, are you sure you don't mean glideslope in this case?


Cheers!

I was just about to start a new thread yesterday, re. ILS approaches when I found this.  I'm pleased to say that the routine works.

I have spent the past couple of days reading tutorials from various sources and still having my planes do everything other than land on CL unassisted.

All other tuts have the same routine EXCEPT they neglect to mention that once NAV is engaged and the plane starts to turn onto final, it's then necessary to disengage ALT and engage APR!

Until reading this, I've been experimenting with all sorts of combinations (being an out and out simmer with no flying experience) and getting desperately frustrated at the seemingly crazed results.  Someone should vet the tutorials posted to spare this sort of frustration.

Presumably the signal indicating that the plane is established on the localizer is the appearance of the Glide Slope Indicator and the Localizer Index.  I don't see and other visual clue in the 737 cockpit.

Anyway thanks for the clear instructions.  

...All other tuts have the same routine EXCEPT they neglect to mention that once NAV is engaged and the plane starts to turn onto final, it's then necessary to disengage ALT and engage APR!

Yes, you have to engage the APPROACH HOLD switch but NOT disengage the altitude hold. Instead, you have to intercept the localizer at the given height

When ATC give you the last instruction (in IFR) to intercept the inbound you have to enter at the right height and right position (better in the middle of the "green" in the GPS maps of FS 2002).

Well, usually ATC tell you to turn to a certain heading, but you have to correct that heading to match exactly the entrance in the correct position. For example, if you are going 255 and ATC tell you "...turn 325 to intercept the localizer...", if there is strong wind from the west, you will end exactly outside of the inbound, and the approach will not work, because once it intercept the localizer you are NOT at the correct height.

If you intercept the localizer, the airplane will start to turn, will disengage automatically the altitude hold and will begin to descend at about 1.000 fpm.

Well everyone knows I gotta give my input. Before 9/11, when nice pilots could let you sit in the cockpit, I had the chance to view a landing in Cat II conditions from a 757 cockpit flying into Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. They are set up on the approach 20 miles out, with all the correct settings inputed into the radio and the autopilot. The airplane would follow their course, with the FMC (flight management computer) determining the proper descent rate to get to the airport for the current speed (don't you wish F$ could do that?). Once the ILS inbound course was intercepted, the Autopilot would lightly correct so that everything was set, instructing the airplane to give a little rudder here, little pitch there, as we glided down the glidescope. After getting final clearence from the tower, and a scary weather report, we continued to float down the Glidescope. The autopilot never allowed the plane to veer from it's assigned course, even with the moderate turbulence (and moderate in a 757 is hell on a smaller airplane) we were experiencing. At 500 feet AGL, the captain puts his hand on the TO/GA button incase the aircraft is forced to go around. At 200 feet, the 757 autopilot increases thrust for about a second, then cuts the engines to idle, and glides it in, amazingly touching down right at 130 knots, right on the centerline, and light enough that you would barely notice we hit. The A/P then continues the rolling by applying reverse thrust, light braking, extending the spoilers, then switching itself off. All in all, one of the best modern systems we know of, a 300,000 pound airplane that can land itself like a feather.

Saratoga, that sounds about correct. But the differentials of thrust you heard was probably caused by the turbulent air, forcing the autothottle to make corrections to maintain the vref+5 landing speed

Just after touchdown the A/T disconnects and speed bleeds off.

but are you SURE the autopilot applied reverse thrust?
I'm no wiz on the 757 systems, but my knowledge thrust reversing is done by the either one of the pilots?

You're not the only one here that's been in the jumpseat of a 757 autolanding  ;D (just wished it had been a TriStar instead.... )