ILS Landing?

[jrpilot]

Hi,

             I am brand new to here and was looking around and saw you guys give out some good advice and I was wondering if you could help me.  When I go to land the aircraft (ussually a B777) ATC only asks me for an Visual Approach when I want a ILS.

At the last minute they give me ILS clearance and I also never intercept the glideslpe.

[Nexus]

Hehe, allright.
I think it's time to clearify a few thingies here.
You say you want to use the ILS?
Well go ahead and do it, most airports which can accomodate a 777 have ILS installed on every big runway. Even if traffic control gives you the visual, it doesn't mean you CAN'T use the ILS, it just means that you are given the clearance to use visual references instead of looking at the instrument panel.


If ATC, however issue a visual to a non-ILS runway (happened all the time to me at Schiphol)  then I can understand your frustration.  :)

Another thing you can do is; reduce your visibilty, that will prevent ATC from giving you the visual , since your weather cannot match the criterias for that type of approach

Happy flying

[jrpilot]

Thanks so much I thought Visual approach ment you won't be intercepting the glideslope.

When do You intercept the glideslope

                ex: I was flying from KLAX to KSEA and was told to go to 2400 feet and they gave me clearance but I never intercepted the glideslope do you have any hints like being at a lower altitude or anything?

                      Thank you

[PH_AJH]

First of all: welcome aboard. You'll love it around here (I do anyway)
Assuming you have your nav1 radio tuned to the ILS frequency and the correct heading dialed in with the course selector, you should see two lines in your NAV1 screen. If the horizontal one is below the middle you should descent (and vice versa) and if the vertical one is say to the left you should steer a bit to the left. As soon as they are both in the middle you're on the glideslope. Flying level at 2400 feet before the outer marker should bring you right on to it.

Good luck
AJ

[OTTOL]

First of all, like Nexus says, " it's just a simulation", so just fly  the approach, if you want to. If you're trying to keep it as real as possible(and I can appreciate that). If you're  cleared for the visual approach, you're cleared for the visual approach. If you want to shoot the ILS, then,as stated, lower the ceiling, using the weather menu. One thousand feet should be sufficient. I don't know if ATC will give you vectors for the approach, if you JUST lower the ceiling while, not on an IFR flight. Somebody help ME on that one!    Otherwise, you'll need to create and load a flightplan. After reviewing your post, I think I have an idea of what happened to you. ATC vectored you in too "tight". That means they turned you towards the ILS course, when you were already too close to the runway. What this means is: you'll pickup the LOCALIZER, INSIDE of the final approach fix, and the GLIDESLOPE will remain "parked" on the bottom of the scale. To give you a mental picture...........Let's say you're flying the LAX to SEA flight again. You get to within 30 miles of the airport(you should have your DME set to SEA-VOR to maintain situational awareness), and ATC begins to give you vectors. I'm assuming you're using Runway 34 Left or Right, because of the 2400' intercept altitude you were given. Let's use 34L for argument sake. You've been vectored Southwest of the final approach course. At 8miles the controller gives  you the approach clearance " turn to heading 040, maintain two thousand four hundred until established, cleared for the ILS 34 Left approach". I can already tell you , that under these circumstances, you are going to intercept the localizer INSIDE of TIFYS(the final approach fix), creating the scenario I just spoke of!  :-X  The computer ATC seems to have a habit of doing this, and if you have ANY wind .......fuggedaboudit!!!   What I would do in this case, and this is true to real world flying as well, is use a little "Kentucky Windage". The final intercept heading is 040 degrees. I look at my moving map and determine that this is going to create the above situation, and I just "widen out" to about  055 degrees.  ;)

[Nexus]

Well put OTTOL, real pilots always have the best explanations, there is just something about your breed...and next summer I will be one of you too

Anyway, like you said, ATC has a tendency of putting you on a very tight final turn, making it very hard to be aligned at the FAF...wonder if ATC got their certificate on ebay....

[jrpilot]

Thank you for the advice, I will fly the route tommrow and use the advice

           

[OTTOL]

     Anyway, like you said, ATC has a tendency of putting you on a very tight final turn, making it very hard to be aligned at the FAF...wonder if ATC got their certificate on ebay....    

When I was a flight instructor, I used to take my students to KFLL and KFXE towers, as part of the intro to flying. I was in Lauderdale tower with a student one time, and got to see how things really work. The student got caught up with the guy "cutting" the ATIS, and it gave me a chance to see how things REALLY work. The Tower, Ground and Clearance Delivery controllers were all women that day, and it sounded something like this............

TOWER: Delta 592 your are cleared to land runway nine left, number two behind an MD80...........so anyway Clarice I tried your recipe for the Chocolate cake...........

CLEARANCE: Um Hum, How did it turn out.........roger
Citrus two twelve, readback correct, verify you have ATIS Zulu and contact ground, point four..............

GROUND: Twin Cessna 3232 Kaybeck expedite across nine left, traffic in position, traffic on a two mile final......I found that when I tried that recipe Jane, it didn't seem to have enough sugar,  it just seemed something was missing............

CLRNC: Hmmm seems like I remember USING more sugar than what the recipe called for............  that's affirmative sir, Atis Zulu is now current............the family loved it though.........

TWR: I'll have to try again next week, I have a new one for a Srawberry cheescake that's ta die for, that I wanna try first!...........Jet Blue twelve you are cleared for takeoff runway nine left, fly heading 090.........I got the recipe right here, you wanna have it?!

GRD: United Five twenty two Heavy, you are cleared for Push Back, call me when you're ready to taxi...........wait a minute let me write it down too!!

TWR: Okay...........a 1/4 pound of Cream cheese.......oh shoot, I'm running this Cessna through the approach course.........Cessna five two charlie, I need to take you through the final approach course for some...........uhhh  traffic............a cup of sugar.......


CLRNC: uh hum.......HOLD ON ! .........Okay ALL aircraft on clearance STANDBY !! I'm on the land line with Miami!!! ......okay one cup of sugar, and ...............

:-/No Exaggeration!!!  :-/

[zcottovision]

LOL! Well, if they do their jobs properly, they can go about it in any way to the like! But I think if I contacting the tower for landing, I'd want them to concentrate on helping me land the plane rather than talking about cake...!