where did i go wrong

[gilbates]

ok
on-line EGLL - EHAM have already installed new default scenery for EHAM , they vector me for the approach to rnwy 18 i think , anyway its not on my Gps / radar default window , they slow me down to nearly stall speed , i guess because i was behind another plane , vectoring me all the way , i have ZERO vis for whatever reason , and i told them , eventually my stall warning goes off , i`m dropping like a stone , so far a nightmare ....... ok now i open the throttle regain control , i then request for an approach to rnway 6 which i have used before , so they vector me round to rnway 6 , i`m then told to contact ground , which i promptly do , then i land finaly on rnwy 6 get clear of the rnway and thank ATC for there help , now heres the bit that got me , i then got chewed out by ground for not contacting them for a landing , getting told it was strictly forbiden , WHAT THE F**K , i had just been up , down , back and forward vectored all the way by them and i get that ear bashing ,

that was it for me , i disconected , swore a little , and kicked the cat

where did i go wrong ?

[Nexus]

You prolly didn't have any rwy 18 on your GPS because those were formerly known as rwy 19. Schiphol has a new runway (18R - 36L) which is not present in FS2002, that's why they decided to rename their runways

Old name   New name
01L  =   36C        
01R  =   36R          
19L  =   18L      
19R  =   18R      

[PH_AJH]

Hate to say this but I think you're wrong.
There is indeed a new runway at Schiphol called Polderbaan, designator 18R. It is positioned east of all the other runways. It was not in FS2002 nor the NL2000 scenery before. But now it is, as a separate download from the nl2000 site. And it [b]is[b] being used as you found out.
Gilbates, believe you fly with Avsim? It is in the ATIS message box EHAM_GND (or what is it called)  ...Something like this. "RW18R in use for landing. Please download Polderbaan scenery" followed by a link. (contact me if you can't find it, I have got it installed so will be glad to help you if need arises) If you would have found this message you would also have read that the active for departing was 24...which happens to be the opposit of the one you landed on .

Now on a less serious note: FS2002 and Avsim may be "as real as it gets" but how often would a real world pilot find a message like the one mentioned in his ATIS?! ("Please download runway before contacting approach")LOL
It's strange that they vectored you to RW6 though. 24 would have made more sense I think. Virtual Holland escaped a terrible tragedy!! Thank you for your skills and not crashing

Cheers
AJ

[gilbates]

Thanks PH_AJH mate

I 100% agree with you by saying i`m wrong , i dont doubt that for a momment , they have got the knowledge and experience , i havent  , i`m a newbie

But what annoyed me was that they originally asked me to slow so much that a stall was induced , they just kept saying please reduce speed to minimum approach speed , i  mean i was only doing about 160 kts , i had the flaps fully extended in the end at about 130/140 i just ran out of lift , if i was that close why not just say go round ?

i told them the new install of the new rnway wasent working as i`d hoped , so instead of 24 like you say  they Vectored me to 6 let me land on 6 and then chewed me out , i mean i`m visible on there radar the whole time

Ahh never mind i`m still sure its my fault somewhere , these guys are good to be fair , maybe i should have checked to make sure the new install was working before i took off , but you know what its like , so much time spent finding and installing , in the end you just assume its all ok , on this occasion , it just whernt

i will take some advice from ya though mate on the proper installation , i`m going back there and next time it WILL be right , for them and me

[Redwing]

i then request for an approach to rnway 6 which i have used before , so they vector me round to rnway 6 , i`m then told to contact ground , which i promptly do , then i land finaly on rnwy 6 get clear of the rnway and thank ATC for there help

They told you to contact ground while you were still in the air? Never heard of that! Thought you didn't do that until after you had landed and were clear of the active (at least that's been my experience both in real & sim flight).

[PH_AJH]

Hi Gilbates,
I didn't mean you were wrong. (Even if you were LOL). I was refering to the runway numbering by Nexus.

The new RW configuration is as follows, coming from the north:
18R = new Polderbaan
18C = former 19R
18L = former 19L

From the south:
36L = new Polderbaan
36C = former 01L
36R = former 01R

I am a nemby with Vatsim myself (only did my first flight two days ago) and agree with you on the EHAM controllers being maybe slightly...well not really helpful.

I tried to contact them the day before yesterday when it was pretty crowded, then decided to let it go because they sounded busy and in a hurry. I moved to Dublin instead, much more quiet and a very friendly controller who had less traffic to guide. After telling him it was my first flight he was more then willing to help me out and made my first flight very enjoyable.

That was what I was hoping for, Vatsim state their network is a learning environment so there you go.

See you in the virtual skies mate! (it is awesome, isn't it? Adds a totally new dimension to the game )

AJ

[gilbates]

Thanks all you guys , there is definately more than one game in that box we all bought , the best one without doubt is on-line , PH_AJH mate if i could nudge ya for the files you have installed and how and where on EHAM i would be real grateful , i`m the same as you mate for ease of control , i`d sooner go somewhere quite , but the Airline i fly for now uses EHAM and to get my hours up i want to use it , so i gota just get better and more thicked skinned i think

And try to drop the prema donna tantrum next time

[Nexus]

PH_AJH: Ooops, talk about a dumb typo... The old 19R should, as you rightfully said be the new 18C

[PH_AJH]

[quote][And try to drop the prema donna tantrum next time /quote]
Sorry Sir, didn't copy that...(English is not my native language). Does it mean I said something wrong? Hope not.

About the Polderbaan scenery look here

http://www.hinttech.com/~dfs/scenery/

you're looking for the "fifth runway" by Marcel Ritzema.

There's some good updated simcharts at

http://flybywire.altervista.org/simcharts.php

Take care
AJ

[Craig.]

i gotta bring up redwings question again.
they asked you to contact ground in the air???? and then the ground had a go at you for not getting a landing clearance from them?? well first of all ground doesnt ever give landing clearance, not there job, at airports where there is no ground controller the tower deals with all requests, but schipol is a large airport with both, as for contacting ground in the air, only ever to get your runway turn off point and to get your gate(which is usually done by the gate agent) so thats rather strange

the procedures usually go, approach will set you up for the runway, then approach hands you off to tower after giving you final approach clearance, next you will contact the TOWER:) inform them you are with them on approach for whatever runway and how far out you are, they will then acknowledge and either give you landing clearance or a further instruction,
once you are on the ground and off the runway you will goto the ground who will expect you to give them a gate number or ramp, and will give you clearance Via said taxi-ways,

there was an incident in america where a united A320 had been given one instruction by the tower and then a differant one by the ground, it was foggy they got lost, and went down the wrong taxiway, this lead onto an active runway, they were less than 10 feet from the runway when a 767 shot by, they hit full brakes and asked what was going on, the ground remained adiment that they were on a closed runway despite a 767 shooting by on take off roll, the next 5 minutes were really nerve racking with an inrate ground controller yelling at the united to continue while also giving clearance to planes to take off, luckaly the planes waiting to depart refused, no matter how much the controller yelled at them to:) eventually said united crossed the runway found a sign that told them where they were and continued on, while getting chewed out, this is what happens when a ground controller tries to take on the job of a tower controller when they shouldnt.

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2000/incursi ... cursion.rm

this is an animation of it in real media format, its pretty big at 6.3MB but well worth a watch, and its a 757 not a320 my bad:)

[gilbates]

Thanks mate , how the hell do ATC understand those msgs its almost undecypherable half the time , and if ya ask me ATC was not paying attention that plane knew exactly where it was , jeez they called it enough times , and as for my probs above , maybe it was me not listening or typing right mate , i know the procedures of who s first and last and thats why i got confused and angry , still i`m first to put my hand in the air and say it was prob me

i am still nout but a beginner

[Craig.]

at least its only a sim:)
as for the clip the pilots were lost they were reporting a wrong runway and they took a wrong turn on one of the taxi ways. but it didnt help with a ground controller also trying to direct what should have been tower traffic. they though the runway was the left one but it was the right or the other way round.
as for understanding, best way is to listen to real time ATC for a while, it starts out as difficult to understand as its so quick, after a while it becomes second nature as to what they are saying,
i might have to give this online flying seems to me could be interesting:)