Simviation Forums

Hey Baron 58 pilots (FS2002Tipster, baron58TC?).  I upgraded the baron 58 using FSD Twin Props upgrade and FS2002Tipster's great panel (thanks!).  Now I was wondering if you seasoned Baron 58 flyers have some advice on power-pitch combos.  Has anyone tabled power/RPM/pitch/ for different stages of flight (initial climb, cruise climb, level flight, descent, transition manuevering, VFR approach, ILS/GS approach, etc)?  MS had a nice posting on their site for the default Baron, but these don't work for the TC version.  I'm finding the modified ac harder to manage.   I'd love to know what you veteran 58 pilots know!

Unfortunately, I opted for the non-turbo-charged option.

The characteristics in certain elements of any table such as you describe would have fundamental differences in the TC version both because of the power difference and the behaviour of Turbos at altitude.

All I can tell you is that unless you're on a very short runway, you shouldn't need any flap for take-off. I do approach on the first flap setting and don't use full flap unless, again, it's a very short runway.

My climb rate is usually uniform and at 700pm, although a higher figure is easily achievable, particularly in the turbo I suspect. My descent rates probably aren't much use to you (if any of this is) because I tend to seek low altitude earlier than I'm sure you would in real avaition.

Perhaps one of the people here with slightly more "structured" flight rules than I will, be able to offer more help.

Is the Baron with the new flight dynamics actually harder to fly?

It receives a generous (and wholly accurate) power boost.

This does give the plane a whole different "feel", particularly when it comes to take-offs and landings and takes some getting used to (did me anyway ).

The biggest change is the power, as Tipster suggests.  The thing (at least the turbo version) is almost over powered.  I had the default model down, but was having trouble with the artificially low ceiling (not enough power).  The new TC verion is way more powerful.  In fact, on TO I have to give less than full throttle (!).  The thing will pitch up 20 degrees and climb at 2500 fps and refuse to nose down.

Also, it has a very frustrating bank, perhaps due to some torque issue.  I saw in an earlier post that Tipster mentions the FDS tweaking was done to solve a yaw problem FDS saw.  I never had a yaw problem in the default, but I do now!  In an earlier post I saw Tipster say he never touches airlion and rudder trim, but I can't fly the thing straight anymore, at least not hands off and without AP.  The new bank angle gauge in tipsters panel (great!) is always 1-3 degrees right, and adjusting trim on rudder or airilon just makes it swing back and forth.  

Maybe I should have stuck with the normally aspirated version not the TC, like Tipster did.  

[quote]The biggest change is the power, as Tipster suggests.

I'll digress a little. ..

When I first got FS2002 and flew the Baron, I was surprised at the low ceiling and "slight" under-power.

I was new to "flight-tuning" and tried to simply increase the HP with TC'ing. I could never get it right (the plane would vibrate violently under full throttle). So I gave up and just accepted it and went on to tuning the Mooney (for some reason it was more forgiving)..(I sure wish the Mooney had a V/C),,anyway...

Now I'm determined to get the Baron right...so back to the drawing board  ;)

[quote]I'll digress a little. ..

When I first got FS2002 and flew the Baron, I was surprised at the low ceiling and "slight" under-power.

I was new to "flight-tuning" and tried to simply increase the HP with TC'ing. I could never get it right (the plane would vibrate violently under full throttle). So I gave up and just accepted it and went on to tuning the Mooney (for some reason it was more forgiving)..(I sure wish the Mooney had a V/C),,anyway...

Now I'm determined to get the Baron right...so back to the drawing board

Well, I might follow Tipsters lead and revert back to the FDS modified version of the normally aspirated Baron.  If is is easy to do.  I seem to recall that the FDS install program had a back to 'default' option.  Tiptster, do you know if I should just re-run the installer and this time ask for "Normally aspirated" or should I go back to default and then to nomally aspirated (is this making sense?).  And will any of this affect your panel?

It would make my panel look like something out of "Nightmare on Elm Street".  ;D

The much easier way is to use my aircraft.cfg file if you want to. It also has the modification for the weight correction in it. It's simply a matter of swapping everything below your own [flightsim0] entries containing your own texture and atc entries for what's in mine.

Here it is if you want to do that:

[General]
atc_type=Baron
atc_model=
editable=1
performance=Cruise Speed\n200 kts              370 km\/hr\n\nEngine\nTeledyne Continental Motors IO-550-C 300 hp\n\nPropeller\nThree-bladed McCauley constant-speed, variable pitch\n\nMaximum Range\n1,569 nm            2,906 km\n\nService Ceiling\n20,688 ft           6,306 km\n\nFuel Capacity\n194 gal               734 L\n\nMaximum Gross Weight\n5,524 lb             2,509 kg        \n\nLength\n29 ft, 10 in          9.09 m\n\nWingspan\n37 ft, 10 in           11.53 m\n\nHeight\n9 ft, 9 in              2.97 m\n\nSeating                 Up to 6\n\nUseful Load\n1,634 lb                741 kg

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight=5524
empty_weight=3959

reference_datum_position=6.96, 0, 0    
empty_weight_CG_position=-6.06, 0, 0    

max_number_of_stations=50

station_load.0=170, -6.54, -1.20, 0.0        
station_load.1=170, -6.54,  1.20, 0.0      
station_load.2=170, -9.80, -1.20, 0.0    
station_load.3=170, -9.80,  1.20, 0.0    
station_load.4=0,  -12.67,  -1.1, 0.0    
station_load.5=0,  -12.67,  1.1, 0.0    
station_load.6=0,  -15.00,  0.0, 0.0
station_load.7=0,   -3.00,  0.0, 0.0  

empty_weight_roll_MOI=15500.000000
empty_weight_pitch_MOI=32000.000000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI=19000.000000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI=0.900000


[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type=0                              
Engine.0=-1.4, -18.0, 0.0                  
Engine.1=-1.4,  18.0, 0.0                  
fuel_flow_scalar=1.0                      

[piston_engine]
power_scalar=1.0
cylinder_displacement=91.7
compression_ratio=8.0
number_of_cylinders=6
max_rated_rpm=2700.0
max_rated_hp=300.0
fuel_metering_type=0
cooling_type=0
normalized_starter_torque=0.3
turbocharged=0
max_design_mp=0.0
min_design_mp=1.0
critical_altitude=0.0
emergency_boost_type=0
emergency_boost_mp_offset=0.0
emergency_boost_gain_offset=0.0
fuel_air_auto_mixture=0
auto_ignition=0
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.0
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.0
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.0
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=1.0

[propeller]
thrust_scalar=1.0
propeller_type=0
rotation=-1,1
propeller_diameter=6.6
propeller_blades=3
propeller_moi=5.0
beta_max=45.0
beta_min=15.0
min_gov_rpm=1100.0
prop_tc=0.1
gear_reduction_ratio=1.0
fixed_pitch_beta=0.0
low_speed_theory_limit=80.0
prop_sync_available=1
prop_deice_available=1
prop_feathering_available=1
prop_auto_feathering_available=0
min_rpm_for_feather=700.0
beta_feather=86.5
power_absorbed_cf=0.9
defeathering_accumulators_available=1
prop_reverse_available=0
minimum_on_ground_beta=0.0
minimum_reverse_beta=0.0

[contact_points]

//GEAR
point.0=1,  0.82,  0.00, -3.96, 1600, 0, 0.633, 40, 0.42, 2.5, 0.90, 3.0, 3.0, 0, 152, 180
point.1=1, -8.04, -4.79, -3.96, 1900, 1, 0.886,  0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 4.1, 4.3, 2, 152, 200
point.2=1, -8.04,  4.79, -3.96, 1900, 2, 0.886,  0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 4.3, 4.1, 3, 152, 200
//SCRAPES
point.3=2, -6.20,-18.91,  0.50,  800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0
point.4=2, -6.20, 18.91,  0.50,  800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0
point.5=2,-24.04,  0.00, -0.50,  800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 9, 0, 0
point.6=2,  0.40,  0.00, -1.24,  800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0

static_pitch=1.56
static_cg_height=3.43

[flaps.0]
type=1
span-outboard=0.41
extending-time=10
flaps-position.0=0
flaps-position.1=15
flaps-position.2=28
damaging-speed=168
blowout-speed=250

[electrical]
max_battery_voltage=24.0
generator_alternator_voltage=28.0
max_generator_alternator_amps=60.0

[pitot_static]
vertical_speed_time_constant=1.0  

[exits]
number_of_exits=1
exit_rate.0=0.4

[Radios]

Audio.1=1
Com.1=1, 1
Com.2=1, 1
Nav.1=1, 1, 1
Nav.2=1, 1, 0
Adf.1=1
Transponder.1=1
Marker.1=1

[Views]
eyepoint=-8.213, -0.8612, 2.220

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
light.0=3,  -6.80, -19.29,  0.79, fx_navred ,
light.1=3,  -6.80,  19.29,  0.79, fx_navgre ,
light.2=3, -25.33,   0.00,  0.72, fx_navwhi ,
light.3=2,  -6.63, -19.29,  0.79, fx_strobe ,
light.4=2,  -6.63,  19.29,  0.79, fx_strobe ,
light.5=1, -24.18,   0.00,  6.17, fx_beacon ,
light.6=2,  -8.00,   0.00, -1.60, fx_strobe ,
light.7=4,  -8.00,   0.00,  2.70, fx_vclight,
light.8=1,  -9.20,   0.00,  3.10, fx_beacon ,

[keyboard_response]
elevator=150, 250
aileron=150, 250
rudder=150, 250

[direction_indicators]

direction_indicator.0=3,0

[fuel]
LeftMain=-8.46, -7.1, 0.0, 97.0, 0.0
RightMain=-8.46,  7.1, 0.0, 97.0, 0.0
fuel_type=1
number_of_tank_selectors=2                    

[EFFECTS]
wake=fx_wake
water=fx_spray
dirt=fx_tchdrt
concrete=fx_sparks
touchdown=fx_tchdwn_s, 1

[airplane_geometry]
wing_area=199.0
wing_span=37.8
wing_root_chord=5.3
wing_dihedral=2.8
wing_incidence=1.0
wing_twist=-1.0
oswald_efficiency_factor=0.7
wing_winglets_flag=0
wing_sweep=1.5
wing_pos_apex_lon=-5.6
wing_pos_apex_vert=0.0
htail_area=40.0
htail_span=12.0
htail_pos_lon=-20.1
htail_pos_vert=0.0
htail_incidence=0.5
htail_sweep=3.5
vtail_area=31.0
vtail_span=5.3
vtail_sweep=42.0
vtail_pos_lon=-22.9
vtail_pos_vert=3.1
elevator_area=17.0
aileron_area=11.3
rudder_area=10.5
elevator_up_limit=30.0
elevator_down_limit=20.0
aileron_up_limit=20.0
aileron_down_limit=20.0
rudder_limit=33.0
elevator_trim_limit=21.0
spoiler_limit=0.0
spoilerons_available=0
aileron_to_spoileron_gain=0
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons=0
min_flaps_for_spoilerons=0


[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed=81.0
full_flaps_stall_speed=76.0
cruise_speed=200.0

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=700.0
autothrottle_available=0
pitch_takeoff_ga=5.000000
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=0
autothrottle_max_rpm=150.000000

[forcefeedback]
stick_shaker_magnitude=5000
stick_shaker_direction=0
stick_shaker_period=111111
gear_bump_nose_magnitude=3000
gear_bump_nose_direction=18000
gear_bump_nose_duration=250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude=2700
gear_bump_left_direction=9000
gear_bump_left_duration=250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude=2700
gear_bump_right_direction=27000
gear_bump_right_duration=250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1=1300
ground_bumps_angle1=08900
ground_bumps_intercept1=3.0
ground_bumps_slope1=0.20
ground_bumps_magnitude2=200
ground_bumps_angle2=09100
ground_bumps_intercept2=1.075
ground_bumps_slope2=0.035
crash_magnitude1=10000
crash_direction1=01000
crash_magnitude2=10000
crash_direction2=9000
crash_period2=75000
crash_duration2=2500000

This is great Tipster!  Thanks.  Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but could I trouble you for a little clarification:

RE: "The much easier way is to use my aircraft.cfg file if you want to. It also has the modification for the weight correction in it. It's simply a matter of swapping everything below your own [flightsim0] entries containing your own texture and atc entries for what's in mine. "

1.  You're saying I should NOT use the FDS installer and remove the PC modification, right?
2.  Where do I get at this airplane.cfg?
3.  You're saying I should find a section call [flightsim0] and substitute your material for everything I find there?

[quote]This is great Tipster!