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I'm planning on taking A-level product design and I've got a few ideas in mind for things I might like to make (need to check with my teacher that it is a free-for-all on what we make as it was for GCSE) but I really want to use carbon fibre on my project.

I understand the stuff can be really expensive along with the compounds required to make it work (kits are out there for like 30x100cm with all the compounds for about

Where you will get it will depend on whether you want to use epoxi hartz or phenol hartz. The stuff you buy in the shops is cheap rubbish that is designed for people who want to look good. If you want to play with this sort of thing then you need to find someone with an autoclave because without one what ever you make will just fall apart as it requires heat and a vacuum........not to mention the water that is produced and has to be gassed off during the hardening process.

Matt

Yeah a lot of the stuff I've seen is just the imposter stuff. Though cheaper, I think it does look quite tacky.

What would the difference be between the Epoxi and the Phenol? I'd rather it dries/tacks/hardens just in room temperatures because although we do have a vacuum pump which has a built in heater (probably the closest thing to an autoclave besides the large furnace we have) it probably would annoy the teachers if it had to run for many hours.

On an episode of 'How its made' I saw them use vacuum pumps and heat, much the same as I could achieve, but they had to leave it for a while.

I don't mind if it isn't the toughest composite, chances are it won't come out fantastic anyway due to my lack in skill, but I am looking for something that will have a decent appearance and some durability.

Yeah a lot of the stuff I've seen is just the imposter stuff. Though cheaper, I think it does look quite tacky.

What would the difference be between the Epoxi and the Phenol? I'd rather it dries/tacks/hardens just in room temperatures because although we do have a vacuum pump which has a built in heater (probably the closest thing to an autoclave besides the large furnace we have) it probably would annoy the teachers if it had to run for many hours.

On an episode of 'How its made' I saw them use vacuum pumps and heat, much the same as I could achieve, but they had to leave it for a while.

I don't mind if it isn't the toughest composite, chances are it won't come out fantastic anyway due to my lack in skill, but I am looking for something that will have a decent appearance and some durability.

For Phenol hartz, you have to have an autoclave, several hundred degrees, a vacuum and a lot of time. The easier way for you would be epoxi hartz. That you can use at room temperature. You can accelerate the hardening with a little heat and you do not require an vacuum, but it would help in the impregnation of the hartz into the web of the fabric. Talking of which, carbon web is directional. You only have strength in one direction, so when laying it up, you must take note of the indication threads that show this. This is important if you buy sheet. If it comes of a roll, then the strength direction is that of the roll direction You will need to layer your work in alternate directions to gain uniform strength. One very important thing about epoxi hartz is that is burns readily and gives off seriously poisonous fumes from the moment of ignition. Phenol hartz is relatively fire proof, though with time does burn but is not as poisonous, but then you have to producion problems to overcome. If I was in your place, I would seriously look at using GRP as fiber glass can be got in just about any DIY or auto repair shop. Jumping in with Carbon you are setting yourself up with a whole lot of costs and trial and error to get your end product just to look good when you could also get the same result with glass all be it another colour and not a trendy black weave.

ALSO to note are the heath aspects of carbon and hartz. They can ruin your day. You cannot sand carbon, the dust if breathed in will enter your lungs and stay there and slowly block you lungs up if enough is inhaled...... No matter what anyone tells you about carbon, please, please believe me on this one point!!! It goes for drilling it to. Also the dust can conduct electricity and cause short circuiting in any electrical component it touches. It can also act as a dialectic and cause corrosion on any metal it comes into contact with if it becomes damp. Lastly, if you get a carbon splinter in your finger, then it is operation time. Due to the form of carbon it acts like a fish hook. The best way to describe this is in comparison with a wood splinter. You body will, given enough time repel said splinter from you finger (that's it you left it alone and did not take a pair of tweezers to it). Carbon worms it way into the skin and would not be naturally expelled. If you got a splinter and could not remove it, you must seek medical advice. If the doctor tells you it will come out given time, thank him and go to another one. In fact keep going from doctor to doctor until you find one who knows about carbon and removes it.

Ouch. One tutorial video showed the person properly sanding down the freshly tacked CF. Though he said not to sand down the actual carbon fibre, he wore no mouth mask and he did it with bare hands, or maybe rubber gloves. Nothing very protective whatsoever.


I think I'll give it a miss then. Expense was one issue but yeah, the others I have heard about. I might be able to get away with using some fake roll-on CF and making a sort of mould for some acrylic or some other type of clear drying resin. Such as with these gloves but have the CF low down and make a mould of clear drying plastic on the top to make it look real. I'll explore my options more, but thank you.



I need to review what I actually want to make anyway. Seems too much like a textiles product with some pretty detailing than 'product design' with laser cutters and fun CAD stuff. Maybe I can make some rudder pedals or something lol. I've been needing those for a while. I'll talk to my teacher first, but thanks for the advice.

Sorry, I did not want to frighten you or put the mockers on any project that you want to do, but sometimes it is best to lay the facts out before one starts and gets into difficulty. A lot of modern day products and effects are really good to look at (carbon is a great example of that), but the negative side, it is good to have a clear picture of that too especially when there are health issues attached.....but that is only my opinion

Matt

No it's a point well made and I'm glad it was brought up before I'd started buying or trying to make anything.

It was only for cosmetic purposes so it seems it is a lot of hassle for something where there are get arounds. Although the get arounds don't have such nice finishes, it seems to be a much safer way of doing it.

Maybe it's because I'm tired and I missed it. But what exactly did you want to do with it?
Carbon Fibre without an actual use is a very expensive waste of money as Matt said, the stuff you get for instance for shows cars and stuff is cheap crap. To give you an idea theres an actual BMW carbon fiber kidney grill, its quite a big piece of kit, looks great but costs only

To be honest I don't *exactly* know what I want to do with it. I just wanted to encorporate it into a product I might be developing. As I also realised, it is a lot of money just to make it look pretty.


I've seen some prices, and they weren't friendly.  :-[

To be fair if you honestly think it will enhance your idea or better your chances then you should go with it even if you do go with the cheper method and option. I have no idea why, but its popular lol. Its a very boring looking material to be honest, yet it has something about it that a lot of people including myself like.
Although back on the F1 thing, one thing I cant stand is when F1 teams roll a car out with an unpainted surface, It just looks tacky lol. I know there are some parts they cant paint but to bring an entire wing in bare carbon fibre, just looks wrong lol. Yet if I had the money I'd go out right now and buy a coffee table made of bare CF. Thats why if your making a product with the intention of marketing it (for your course work purposes even if not actually doing so) Then it is worth sticking with it.

Yeah it's a whacky material which looks great with most things. Sometimes raw carbon fibre can look alright, just depends on what it is being put on I suppose.


Cheaper fake stuff is well cheap and fake but I suppose to some people they just won't know the difference.