Simviation Forums

I'm not sure where to post this so mods please move it if necessary.

I was hoping one of the history experts might see it & help convince me that I haven't completely lost my one remaining marble.

I vividly recall my Dad taking me to an air show at the old Gatwick Airport. This must have been in the late 1940s or early 50s. I was very young & always blamed it for my lifelong passion for anything that flies. I remember we travelled by train & got off at Gatwick Racecourse rather than the old Airport station for some reason.

One of the aircraft was a B-17 which was parked with a tiny plane underneath it. This was built by the apprentices of the Lockheed Aircraft Company (I think) & billed as the smallest aircraft in the world. It was so small there was no actual cockpit & the pilot flew it strapped (head first) on top in a prone position. I can remember a display by the famous French bird man Leo Valentin now regarded as the "Father of Skydiving". Also a demonstration of a stranded pilot wearing a special harness being picked up by an aircraft flying overhead. This invoved a hook on the end of a rope & the aircraft might have been a Piper Cub. It must have been a very strange experience for the "stranded pilot".

I worked at Gatwick for about 17 years from 1962 onwards & met many locals who had worked there during WWII & afterwards. Not one of them could remember this happening at all. Despite reading everything I can find & scouring the internet for hours I've never seen any mention of it to this day yet I know I didn't imagine it.

I would be so grateful for even the slightest information. Please - somebody.

Can't help with the aircraft, I suppose as it was built by apprentices it won't necessarily have a Lockheed type designation, but i'll keep me' eyes open (do you have any desciption of config/shape?).

As for the rescue harness, I saw a clip of this yesterday on the box. The aircraft was significantly larger (can't remember what it was, probably a C-47, but I can't think if was US or RAF... - but definately a twin).

I was very young & always blamed it for my lifelong passion for anything that flies

Being taken to Old Warden almost every month since birth seemed to work for me! Also explains my passion for the DH 88 Comet, Gladiator (second cockpit I ever sat in, as a nine year old, the first being a Tornado F2/3(?) at RAF Coningsby aged three), and clipped wing DH propped Westalnd made Spitfire LF Mk Vc's!

Charlie

As for the rescue harness, I saw a clip of this yesterday on the box.

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I missed this programme but when my brother mentioned it earlier this evening the memories came flooding back. That's what made me post this.

The aircraft was significantly larger (can't remember what it was, probably a C-47, but I can't think if was US or RAF... - but definately a twin)

It was a long time ago & the aircraft might have been a C-47. I still have the feeling it was something like a Piper Cub. I can remember all these distant events vividly but I'm none too confident I could tell what I did yesterday.

Can't help with the aircraft, I suppose as it was built by apprentices it won't necessarily have a Lockheed type designation, but i'll keep me' eyes open (do you have any desciption of config/shape?).

As I recall it was a conventional looking monoplane in miniature. Most likely low-wing to make room for the pilot & fixed gear.  A bit like a large-scale R/C model.

It would be nice to identify it but that would be a bonus. It's the actual air show nobody seems to remember. I'm 100% certain it was at Gatwick but everyone I mention it to gives me strange looks & thinks I must be mistaken or finally went right round the bend.

Hi,

Just did a post on PPrune and got this almost straight away...

The Daily Express sponsored an International Air Pageant at Gatwick in 1949. I wasn't there (three years old then) but it was memorable for the debut of the Pitts Special in Britain ? Betty Skelton's Little Stinker which had been shipped across the Atlantic aboard the Queen Mary. From memory, I think Al Williams' Grumman G22 Gulfhawk II, now in the NASM, and the Fulton Airphibian roadable aircraft also took part.

Still found nothing on the little Lockheed though...

Charlie

Thanks so much Charlie. What can I say? This is a fantastic result. I always said it would have been 1949 when I was 6 years old.

You see, I'm not as daft as everyone thinks. At least, not quite.
Thanks again.

PS. What is PPrune?

Thanks to Charlie's info I managed to track down a little more information. Here's a photo of Betty Skelton in her Li'l Stinker.


A shot of another original Pitts Special showing how tiny it was.


In an article I found it was described as the smallest aircraft to fly in Britain at the time of the Gatwick Air Pageant.
http://www.steenaero.com/articles_detail.cfm?ArticleID=40

This one was named Li'l Monster. I don't know what type it is or who built it.


Li'l Monster with a Pitts Special.


I'm starting to think I might be mistaken about that tiny aircraft I saw & maybe it was in fact Li'l Stinker. It was 45 years ago & I was only 6 years old but it's still nagging in the depths of my addled brain. I'm almost certain it was even smaller - a monoplane with the pilot laying prone on top of the fuselage & not in a cockpit. I found this photo of Betty Skelton posing with some other aerobatic pilots in front of what looks very much like it. Pity they don't say what it is in the caption.

Maybe it's Li'l Monster. Interesting though.

Imagine doing this today - then reassembling it & having the guts to fly it. Fascinating.

In the late 40's, Betty participated in the International Air Pageant at Gatwick Airport in London, England. The London Daily Express (a very active backer of aviation, sponsoring this event as well as many others) invited Betty, along with representatives from various countries, to participate in the Pageant.

Participating in the Pageant was one thing... getting there was another. She flew "Li'l Stinker" to Newark, New Jersey, where she enlisted the help of a mechanic, and dismantled it.

"It was quite a job. There were no drawings, so we had to count each nut and bolt and the number of turns on each wire. When the job was completed, we boxed it up... it looked like a large coffin."

From Newark, the airplane was trucked to the coast where it was loaded on the Queen Mary for its long voyage to London.

"The reaction to 'Li'l Stinker' was astounding. I think it was about the smallest airplane flying at that time. In England, sport flying was expensive at this time... gas was especially costly. They just fell in love with it."

Thanks so much Charlie.

No problem, you're very welcome.

PS. What is PPrune?

Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork. Lots of forums from Airlines, military to GA and history and nostalgia. Very good place, and is frequented by such people as John Farley, and many experienced and (well known) airmen (I could throw in a few names). Well worth a visit just for the history section itself.

http://www.pprune.org

Charlie

PS. What is PPrune?

Another example of some forum members not being site users.... PPrune has been posted in several of our links page for a long time - even highlighted in our main links page & as a headline on our front page for several days when 1st posted  ;)

[quote]Another example of some forum members not being site users.... PPrune has been posted in several of our links page for a long time - even highlighted in our main links page & as a headline on our front page for several days when 1st posted

[quote]

Another example of some forum members not being site users.... PPrune has been posted in several of our links page for a long time - even highlighted in our main links page & as a headline on our front page for several days when 1st posted

Hi Hagar,

Noticed your passion for DH 88 Comet. There is a guy called Steve Holland flying one of these around the Large Model Shows. He was going to retire it but I saw some pics of it still flying in my Radio Control Model World mag  ( commission plug !!). It is BIG, 18ft I think you'll find. Looks good in the air.
If I knew how to put a pic up, I would scan one across for you.

Tony

Thanks Tony. I think you're confusing me with Charlie. I never particularly liked the Comet although I have seen it at Old Warden. Never saw it fly.

Noticed your passion for DH 88 Comet.Tony

Yip, I think I'm guilty of that one...

I'm very familiar with the aeromodelling world (semi-retired aeromodeller at the mo - my aeroplanes live 200 miles from me!), and Steve Hollands excessively large aeroplanes (you'd think he might buy a real one...). Nice aeroplane the Comet, I remember the mags covering it when he was building it.

Charlie