How my country treats its heroes

[Hagar]

I was shocked to read about this in the paper during the week. Neville Duke is my childhood hero & having had the pleasure of meeting him & his lady wife several times over the last few years they have lived up to all my expectations. I think it's disgraceful & had I known about this I would have been happy to contribute to the cost of the operation out of my own pocket.

Fighter ace sells medals to spare wife long wait for hip replacement

One of the most decorated British fighter pilots of the Second World War has sold his medals, diaries and other memorabilia partly to pay for a hip replacement operation for his wife who faced at least a six-month wait on the National Health Service.

Sqn Ldr Neville Duke, 83, the Royal Air Force's top-scoring ace in the Mediterranean theatre who set a world air speed record of 728 mph in 1953, put the collection up for auction rather than subject his wife Gwen to months of pain and discomfort while she waited for an operation.

The standard waiting time for hip replacements in the orthopaedic department at the Royal Bournemouth Hospital, one of the nearest facilities to the Dukes' home, is six months.

Mrs Duke, who has been in pain with her hip for eight months, was told by her chiropractor that the wait might be 15 months.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/08/nduke08.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/12/08/ixportal.html

PS. I never understood why a quiet modest man like Neville Duke who has contributed so much to aviation, & continues doing so, wasn't knighted many years ago.

[C]

Saw this in one of the papers the other day. Disgusting... >:(

All on the day that the Sunday Times Reveals certain (elected) well paid people in this country may not be paying their own council tax, but claiming it as expenses...

[Bazza]

Totally amazing Doug.....

I have a mate here who is the local Welfare Rep for Naval Personnel and wonder why he couldn't have got some aid thru similar ex-service associations ?         Probably a man of his back-ground and character was too proud to ask.      

We have similar delays in this part of the world as well where the medical resources are seemingly unable to cope with longevity and joints wearing out while the owners are still using them.

I can only begin to wonder how he must have felt handing over that material - all those items should be preserved for the Nation.

[Romulus111VADT]

It's no better in the USA when the most decorated soldier in US history, Audie Murphy, was forced to sleep in a YMCA for several years after the war because he couldn't find work and his military disability pension wouldn't even cover the costs of housing and normal monthly bills.

Now a days even the medical benefits are crap. Active duty are seen first and all others are put on a waiting list and can be forced to wait 6 months to one year to be seen at any VA Hospital.

Even if you go to a civilian doctor, it must be approved by the VA or the bill is left to the soldier. Any prescription medications must be approved or the VA will not pay. If the civilian doctor's prescribe medications the VA disapproves. The soldier must pay the entire cost.

It's totally disgraceful how the US Veteran Administration totally ignores it's promises and in fact are attempting to lower the benefits and what they cover.

[Hagar]

It's no better in the USA when the most decorated soldier in US history, Audie Murphy, was forced to sleep in a YMCA for several years after the war because he couldn't find work and his military disability pension wouldn't even cover the costs of housing and normal monthly bills.

I didn't know that about Audie Murphy. I remember seeing the film about his exploits when I was very young myself & thought how young he looked in it.

People & govenments have very short memories. Neville Duke was once as famous as any film star & often featured on the front page of the newpapers but although he looks much the same now I doubt that many people would recognise him or even know what he's done. He joined the RAF in 1940 at the age of 18 & by the following year was leading a squadron in the Desert Air Force. Although he was shot down several times he was fortunate enough never to suffer any injuries & he ended up as the top-scoring British pilot in that theatre.

On leaving the RAF he became Hawker's chief test pilot & had several narrow scrapes. In 1953 he broke the world speed record in a specially modified Hawker Hunter. The handling of the Hunter is described by those who flew it as the jet equivalent of a Spitfire which was no doubt due to Neville Duke's contribution to the design. He watched from the runway as his friend & fellow test pilot John Derry was killed when the prototype DH110 broke up following a supersonic dive at the Farnborough Air Display & then calmly took offf in the Hunter & broke the sound barrier himself. He later injured his back after ejecting while testing the Hunter (I believe) which forced his retirement as he could no longer fly high-performance jets. He continued test flying lower performance types until very recently & still flies his own Piper Warrior & enthusiastically supports the PFA & various other organisations. He is everything you could possibly want in a hero which must be very rare. I found this quote which sums up the man & his wife perfectly.

"It is testament to Duke that he is such a modest man he will not be at the auction itself. The newspapers during the 1950s were calling to knight him and I think its is still the case he deserves honouring in such a way."

Duke is keen any recognition be directed towards Gwen who has supported him in numerous adventures. Over the years she has been a faithful 'co-pilot' in their pre-war Tomtit. They are no strangers to danger in their later years including a recent incident when the plane ran out of fuel in dark skies over the Sussex countryside. Duke was able to bank steeply between two large oak trees before a bumpy landing in a ploughed field. Gwen described the fright as a 'tense moment.'

She explained the secret of their long and successful marriage was that they were both simply aviation mad.

"It is human nature that men have toys. You have to either like them or not and I am lucky enough to be as aviation mad as he is," she added.

[jordonj]

Romulus, for once I agree with you there!  

Soliders are coming back with PTSD and there are no advocates for them in society.

That's the part of "Support the Troops" that certain political figures forget.

From what Hagar is saying, this seems to be more the norm than the exception.

[Falcon500]

im split on this matter, it is sad that he wanted / needed to do that. but it also shows that he will do anything for the woman in his life, kind and love in his heart.

[jordonj]

im split on this matter, it is sad that he wanted / needed to do that. but it also shows that he will do anything for the woman in his life, kind and love in his heart.

You have a point there, but he shouldn't have to do that...

[BFMF]

You have a point there, but he shouldn't have to do that...

I agree. He earned those medals, and IMO, should never be required to give them up.

[ozzy72]

That is sickening. A sad state of affairs.

[Hagar]

I agree. He earned those medals, and IMO, should never be required to give them up.

The medals are only part of the auction which included many of his most personal & valued personal mementos of his long career. These include the white bone dome that is still associated with him & that he wore while breaking the world speed record in that beautiful red Hawker Hunter over 50 years ago. I actually saw him wearing this helmet at a special event held at Tangmere on the 50th anniversary of that flight to the actual day. The late Ray Hanna put on a special display in the OFMC P-40 as a tribute. Neville Duke flew the P-40 in North Africa before they were replaced by the Spitfire during his second tour. Unfortunately I missed the photo of the century when he posed on the ladder of the very same red Hunter holding the bone dome under his arm, exactly the same as what we saw plastered on the front page of every newspaper in the country on the following day 50 years before. He is naturally very upset at being forced to part wth these things after so many years.

As usual those articles don't tell the full story & there are apparently other reasons for his decision to sell them. I magine his wife's operation was a big influence but they are both getting old & have no children to pass these things on to. I'm sure that in different circumstances he would have donated them to a museum like the one at Tangmere where he is honorary president.

Unfortunately old age comes to us all & many people are in the same or worse position. This shows more about the state of health care in this country than anything else. By the time Gwen Duke had got that operation on the NHS that they have both been funding all their working lives she might well have passed away.

[Romulus111VADT]

If memory serves me correct on history. Any country that has every existed, whether it was run by a King/Queen, Emperor, dictator or a democratic form of government, They all derive their power through the military and the use of that military to enforce the chosen laws of the land. Or to defend their ideals from invaders of their lands.

Even the Roman Caesar's had to treat their soldiers well. Several of the Caesar's discovered that when you mistreat your military and the military forces turn against you. You not only lose your power, but many lost their lives. As late as WWII, the Germans learned that lesson as well as the Russians in recent history.

To take a man/woman into the military whether through voluntary enlistment, forced conscription, or by draft and make all sorts of promises to entice them (bend them to the will of the government) by means of sign on bonus's, re-up bonus's, lifetime medical, so on and so forth. Then to renege on these promises to save money is totally unacceptable.

These men/women put their lives at risk and on hold to serve a country that lied to them? Then to see the very government that made the promises say , "We can't afford to keep this up" and then turn around and throw away billions of dollars in "pet projects" like gambling casinos, and totally absurd projects like, "The matting habits of the tree frog" (like who gives a crap). It's enough to make anyone question serving their country.

[Hagar]

These men/women put their lives at risk and on hold to serve a country that lied to them? Then to see the very government that made the promises say , "We can't afford to keep this up" and then turn around and throw away billions of dollars in "pet projects" like gambling casinos, and totally absurd projects like, "The matting habits of the tree frog" (like who gives a crap). It's enough to make anyone question serving their country.

Indeed & yet some still do it willingly. This has always puzzled me assuming they know any history. The troops fighting in the trenches in WWI were promised a land fit for heroes when & if they returned. I don't imagine that what they actually returned to or has happened since bore much resemblance to what they were promised, any more than it did for their sons only 25 years later.

I was 10 years old when Neville Duke broke that world speed record in 1953. I watched him do it as the course was along the coast where I lived then & still live today. From that day on he became my hero & he is still my hero. He is everything that I would have liked to have been myself & my whole life has been influenced by him & people like him. No young boy could wish for a better role model. I had no idea of his war record until several years later as like many ex-RAF fighter pilots he had a long & distinguished career as a test pilot after the end of the war. These brave men were still risking their lives every time they went up (& some of Neville Duke's closest friends were indeed killed while doing their jobs) which only increases my admiration for them.

My hero in front of the record breaking Hunter with his friend Peter Twiss (on his right). Twiss later broke the world speed record over the same course in the Fairey FD.2 at an average speed of 1132 mph. I can remember that without looking it up.


Posing for me at Popham with his charming wife Gwen & one of the volunteer marshals he typically insisted was included in the photo.

[Romulus111VADT]

Heck, the US government's mistreatment of it's veterans is nothing new and has gone on probably since it was founded as a country.

"The Bonus Expeditionary Force." A group of WWI veterans who had been denied their pensions organized the first march on Washington in protest. In 1932, twenty thousand men set up a tent city, vowing to stay until they got their money. President Hoover overreacted and sent in the army (led by future war heroes Douglas MacArthur, George Patton and Dwight D. Eisenhower) to break up this peaceful demonstration.

This site details this shameful event- http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm

[Craig.]

I hate to do it but I have to play devils advocate.
Now Mr Duke in my opinion is definatly a hero and deserves all the respect in the world. And this case is definatly an example of why veterans should have their own medical plan. However I do not feel otherwise that his wife deserves preferential treatment on the NHS. As tough as it may be to deal with, if you choose the NHS then you know there will be a waiting list, 6 months is actually not that long a wait, and if she is put on the cancellations list the chances of her operation being within 2 months is high. While the waiting list is unfairly long, little can be done to change it without new hospitals and surgeons. Why should his wife be bumped in front of perhaps another OAP whos been waiting already 6 to 12 months for a serious operation?
My Grandmother needed both her knees and hip replaced, she was forced to wait over 15 months for it to be done. Those were some agonising months for her trying to get around, she did her part as a factory worker in WW2 and my Grandfather was one of those first groups of soldiers on the beaches on D-Day. Not once did it come into her mind to use that as an excuse for quicker treatment.
Once again please dont get mad at me I am just trying to look at it from another angle, I would agree that all war veterans should have a no cost medical scheme that allows them and their familys fast track medical help for them especially the older members. And I have nothing but the upmost respect for Mr Duke and what he has done, having been on the NHS waiting list for a while myself before my operation I can understand their frustration.