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ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measurements?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:06 pm
by Fozzer
Hello Pilots...!

I watched a very interesting program on the television* last night:

Air Crash Investigations, (One of a series of programs).

This one involved a documentary and re-construction of events leading up the the fatal crash of an Air America Boeing 757 aircraft, due to pilot error, whilst carrying 164 passengers and crew, and attempting to perform an instrument landing at an airport in Colombia in 1995.

Although it had nothing to do with the crash, what surprised me was the fact that the American flight crew and the Columbian Air Traffic Controller both used the Metric system when radioing height, (in metres), and distance (in kilometers).

Surely the instruments in the Boeing aircraft are calibrated, and indicate the height in feet, (altimeter), and the distance in miles (DME)...?

Would there not be a chance of confusion between the two types of readings, between the pilot/co-pilot and Air traffic Control, especially during an emergency...?

To have to convert the ATC rodio information from metres and kilometers to the instrument readings in feet and miles, during a panic emergency, or even a normal flight would put un-acceptable stress on the pilot/co-pilot...?

All the dials on the panel in my little Cessna 152 are lovingly painted in feet and miles...!!
Altimeter.
Rate of climb indicator.
Distance measuring instruments.
...plus any extras filling up any un-used holes in the panel...!

...any ideas...!

Cheers chaps...!

Paul...long live Queen Victoria... 8)...!

P.S. ..*.just noticed Hagar's here.....I popped in to one of the childrens places to watch it... ;)...LOL...!

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:01 pm
by Craig.
Hi Mr Fozzer.
I watched the same thing, a very informative program, and it shows how a few small problems turn into huge problems quickly and very soon after disaster.
In certain parts of the world metric is used, i believe they do so in australia and sinagpore aswell. South america might also be the same.
All commercial planes have both measurements for these situations.

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:07 pm
by jrpilot
Yes, I watched that show about 2 months ago, along with about 3-4 other investigations they did.  I wish the whole world used the metic system since it is more precise and easier to use.

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:18 pm
by Fozzer
Hi Craig... ;D...!

...after the program, I experimented, (as I do, just ask Jordan :)...), by selecting the Metric system, (as opposed to the US system), in the "Options" menu in FS 2004, but, of course, this didn't change any of the "text" on the dials, (feet/miles).
....but it maybe that the altimeter readings indicated Metres instead of Feet?
Dunno... ::)...?

Cheers Mate...!

Paul....two left feet... ::)... ;)... ;D...!

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:19 pm
by Woodlouse2002
Paul....two left feet... ::)... ;)... ;D...!

Where'd you leave 'em? ;D

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:43 pm
by ATI_7500
Well, the pilots actually just would have had to multiply the values on the instruments by 3 and the values of the ADF/VOR compass by 2.

Guess what I always have do when flying my trusty An-24 in FS? ::)


Bj

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:46 pm
by Saitek
SLightly off topic - Paul what channel and how long the series on for and the intervals? Weekly?

I never saw it! :o :(

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:48 pm
by Craig.
channel 5. 23:05, every monday. or 11:05 for those non 24hour clock people. ;D

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:04 pm
by eno
channel 5. 23:05, every monday. or 11:05 for those non 24hour clock people. ;D


If you have SKY then almost every day at some point on most of the Discovery channels.

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:04 pm
by Craig.
that to:)

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:06 pm
by Saitek
channel 5. 23:05, every monday. or 11:05 for those non 24hour clock people. ;D



*Notes it down.* ;)

I'm looking forward to next Monday! 8)

Thanks.

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:44 pm
by beaky
Reminds me of the heavy that ran out of go-juice over Canada after a screwup involving too many people thinking way too much (or not enough) about the English-Metric conversions while taking on fuel with a defective gauge...

http://www.airodyssey.net/articles/movie-flt174.html

Actually a link to a review of a film made about the event...if anyone's wondering, they landed safely on a nearby defunct airstrip, partly because they knew the area, and mostly because the skipper was an avid glider pilot!

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:45 am
by 767-300er
Reminds me of the heavy that ran out of go-juice over Canada after a screwup involving too many people thinking way too much (or not enough) about the English-Metric conversions while taking on fuel with a defective gauge...

http://www.airodyssey.net/articles/movie-flt174.html

Actually a link to a review of a film made about the event...if anyone's wondering, they landed safely on a nearby defunct airstrip, partly because they knew the area, and mostly because the skipper was an avid glider pilot!


Here she is :)
http://images.airliners.net/open.file?i ... photo_nr=1
Looking a little old, though. Wouldn't be surprised if they scrap it soon :(

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:38 am
by Rifleman
Ah yes, the infamous Gimli Glider...... ;)

...........can you imagine slipping a 767 because all you have for hydraulic power is the RAT ..........even the much experienced pilot wondered if he could get back in line with the runway once he stood on the rudder pedal to throw the bird sideways......... :o

Full account of it HERE

Re: ATC-Pilot confusion: Metric/Imperial measureme

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:05 am
by Saitek
I really enjoyed that Kevin.