Only in Britain

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Only in Britain

Postby ozzy72 » Mon May 16, 2005 1:57 am

In a corner of Southampton airport, dwarfed by the terminal buildings, sit four Piper training planes painted in a natty red and white livery. This is the fleet of Solent Flight, a prosperous flying school with 300 pilots on its books.
Solent has offered training courses and pleasure flights along the south coast for well over a decade. But it is about to be evicted to make space for an extra aircraft parking space for the budget airline FlyBe.
BAA, which runs Southampton airport, says it is pressed for space and needs the stretch of apron occupied by Solent. The flying school says it has already swallowed a 100% increase in airport charges over five years, and that eviction could mean closure.
Martin Robinson, the chief executive of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots' Association, says Britain's 25,000 private pilots are becoming increasingly frustrated at soaring landing fees, compulsory "handling charges" and the frosty welcome at airports where once they were valued customers.
"It's all tied in with the grandiose idea that these are all large international airports. To be quite honest, it's a joke," he says. "Many of these airports saw the government's white paper on airport expansion and took it as a green light for Little Snodgrass International," said Mr Robinson.
Anxious to accommodate the likes of Ryanair, FlyBe and easyJet, the airports tend to regard private aviation as a nuisance with the potential to block a runway just as a commercial jet wants to land.
At Edinburgh, two out of in three local flying schools have shut down in recent years. Newcastle airport's landing charges for the smallest of planes have rocketed from
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby Hagar » Mon May 16, 2005 3:12 am

I'm afraid this is likely to get worse. Southampton is hardly the ideal place for a school now. I fear for the future of smaller GA airports like Shoreham - or Brighton City Airport as it's now called after being known as Shoreham since 1911. Only the word International is missing. ::)

Martin Robinson, the chief executive of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots' Association,
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby TacitBlue » Mon May 16, 2005 8:25 am

Thats sad, it looks like the goverment over there is trying to get people to stop flying. The same way ours is trying to get people to stop smoking - by making it to expensive, and to much of a hassel.
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby jordonj » Mon May 16, 2005 9:19 am

Thats sad, it looks like the goverment over there is trying to get people to stop flying. The same way ours is trying to get people to stop smoking - by making it to expensive, and to much of a hassel.



I guess I really don't see the analogy, but then, I'm not a smoker...
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby TacitBlue » Mon May 16, 2005 9:30 am

You pay more in tax than you do for product when you buy a pack of smokes, and then you cant smoke them anywhere.*

to compare that to GA in Britain:

Landing fees are to high, and you have nowhere to park or learn to fly.

I guess it wasnt a good analogy, but its the first thing that came to mind.

* yes, I know it would be infinately better to quite smokeing, but its my choice, not the governments. lets not go into that.
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby FLYING_TRUCKER » Mon May 16, 2005 9:35 am

Hi Mark:

The problem you have described exists not only in Britain but here in Canada as well.

We not only have to battle Municipal, Provincial and Federal Government officials here but Insurance Companys as well.  

The cost to insure a General Aviation Aircraft to-day like a C-172 is out of the reach of some folks.  Many General Aviation Pilots to-day do not even have Hull Insurance on their aircraft.
One of the small grass flying strips I visit weekly is a licenced airport.  I will not mention any names however there is about forty-five light aircraft there.  Maybe two twins, no commercial flying or instructing at all.  I do know for a fact that eighty per-cent (80%) of those pilots have no Hull Insurance because of the cost.
The airport is in jeopardy as several new executive housing developments have been built and the people are complaining about the noise of the aircraft on the week-ends.  What is odd the airport has been there since the 1930s and the Golf Course four years and the executive housing development two years.
Who do you think the powers to be will listen to:  not the folks who have been there for several generations, farming the land and paying taxes, no they will listen to the executives who do not even shop in the community but travel to the larger cities to spend their money.  "Only in Canada you say" Bloody Pity. :( :( :(

The problem exists all across this country and not just here in Ontario.  

Having talked to many of my American friends at airshows and fly-ins the problem exists there as well.

The Federal Government has moved General Aviation from the Commercial Centers to the rural areas where now we have to contend with all three levels of Government.

Can the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association and the American Owners and Pilots Association continue to fight for the rights of Private and General Aviation Pilots.
I do not know, what I do see is a decline in General Aviation and with that decline the associations must find a shortage of funds.

However the Government uses our own taxes to oppose us and all to often common sense and the will of the people does not prevail.

Well that is my two cents worth Mark...time will tell! ;)

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby jordonj » Mon May 16, 2005 9:35 am

yes, I know it would be infinately better to quite smokeing, but its my choice, not the governments. lets not go into that.


Agreed...;D


Trucker, you posted the same time as I did!  The problem does indeed exist here in America!

As Kevin said, GA is slowly being whittled away :(
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby Hagar » Mon May 16, 2005 9:47 am

[quote]The airport is in jeopardy as several new executive housing developments have been built and the people are complaining about the noise of the aircraft on the week-ends.
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby FLYING_TRUCKER » Mon May 16, 2005 10:25 am

Hi jordonj:

As a pilot I would hope you are a member in good standing with the American Owners and Pilots Association as they like our COPA "Canadian Owners and Pilots Association" need all the help they can get.
They are an official voice to be reckon with.

Every voice like every dollar can and will make a difference.  You need to make your concerns known at meetings and through correspondence to your local chapters.

To-gether we can make a difference. ;)

Hi Doug:

Thanks for the site...will check it out.

Hull insurance here is not compulsory however liability insurance is.  Now I am referring to privately owned aircraft and not flown by anyone but the owner, not rented nor flown for hire or reward. :)

I am not sure about Britain or the United States but here in Canada Government equipment (police cars, fire trucks, municipal buses etc.) have no insurance at all on them.

Like I mentioned to jordonj it is the people who have to care enough to make the difference.  I do not mean just pilots but Aviation Enthusiasts everywhere.  Yes we here at the Simviation Forums like the Rocking Chair Pilots who maybe lost their licences due to medicals or found it just to expensive to fly, whatever the reason if we all put our voices to-gether we can make a difference.

I am not saying we should do this through Simviation as that would be against the rules and policy of this site.
However an Aviation Enthusiast can join any number of organizations and have their voice legally recognized to the powers to be.

Well I have rambled on long enough... ;)

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby TacitBlue » Mon May 16, 2005 10:31 am

The EAA has a government advocacy program. I know they work with the US govt. but I dont know about other countries. They are an international organization. Its mainly because of the EAA that light sport aircraft, and sport pilot licenses exist here.

Note: sport pilot is different than private pilot... if you didnt know.
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby Hagar » Mon May 16, 2005 11:26 am

The EAA has a government advocacy program. I know they work with the US govt. but I dont know about other countries. They are an international organization. Its mainly because of the EAA that light sport aircraft, and sport pilot licenses exist here.

Note: sport pilot is different than private pilot... if you didnt know.

The Popular Flying Association (PFA) is the UK equivalent of the EAA. http://www.pfa.org.uk/
It does much the same thing but from what I hear it's becoming more difficult to fight bureaucracy. Once something is lost it's too late & we will never get it back.
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby ozzy72 » Mon May 16, 2005 11:26 am

Right chaps lets fire up our engines and dive bomb some parliaments ;)

Mark

Ps. I recommend lime marmalade, its stickier ;D
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby C » Mon May 16, 2005 11:38 am

Mmm interesting. To be fair, I think that the Southampon Airport management could do them a favour. Any airport with the regular airline traffic is going to make certain elements of training different, and the airfield is smack bang in the middle of Southampton Airport.

I'm sure I'd read that at least one of the Southampton Schools was moving some of its operations to the Navy airfield at Lee on Solent. I'm sure the MoD would like a commercial tenant to help pay for its upkeep. Personally it would be better for the students too, and would also be safer too - the airfield is in a lot less of a built up area and next to the see, and further out in Southapton controlled airspace...
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Re: Only in Britain

Postby Hagar » Mon May 16, 2005 11:52 am

Mmm interesting. To be fair, I think that the Southampon Airport management could do them a favour. Any airport with the regular airline traffic is going to make certain elements of training different, and the airfield is smack bang in the middle of Southampton Airport.

I'm sure I'd read that at least one of the Southampton Schools was moving some of its operations to the Navy airfield at Lee on Solent. I'm sure the MoD would like a commercial tenant to help pay for its upkeep. Personally it would be better for the students too, and would also be safer too - the airfield is in a lot less of a built up area and next to the see, and further out in Southapton controlled airspace...

I agree. Can't see it being practical to operate a flying school on a busy commercial airport anyway. I hear that Lee is becoming popular with vintage aircraft enthusiasts. I met several at Popham on my last visit. Maybe this would be one way to ensure it doesn't become yet another housing estate.
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