Simviation Forums

There's a proposal locally to build a new hotel over near our mall.  The problem is, the area that they want to build the hotel is near an area where the "Karner Blue Butterfly" lives.  Apparently this butterfly is extremely rare, and opponents fear that building the hotel would disturb the butterflies.

So here's my question to you.  Knowing only those facts, which would you support?

Personally, I think that if you're going to complain about a lack of jobs and a crap economy, you can't put off building a hotel over a fricken butterfly.  That's just me, though...what do you guys think?

The butterfly just to be diffiecult  ;)


Craig

Very difficult. It basically all comes down to profit. You can build a hotel anywhere you wish providing the land is available. If these butterflies are as rare as you say & they can't be relocated they will die out & possibly become extinct. In this case & without being familiar with the area I would have to go with the butterflies. We interfere with nature far too much as it is.

Hagar, it's my understanding that the reason they want to build there is the close proximity to the mall.  (Why that is significant I'll never understand...the mall sucks.)

Animals and species were dying out LOOONG before we started tinkering with things.  When was the last time you saw a Dodo?  (The bird, I'm not referring to Ozzy.)  What about a T-Rex?  Species weren't meant to last forever.

[quote]Animals and species were dying out LOOONG before we started tinkering with things.

Nature IS finely balanced, and I think it's arrogant of we as a collective (societally, not you or me, Hagar) to think we're even CAPABLE of doing serious damage to that which was created by something MUCH larger than any of us....

I think it's arrogant of us (not you & me) to abuse nature & not work with it. If we're not careful we will end up destroying everything.

Not even close to a hard decission! Butterfly all the way. We loose open space at a far to quick pace nowadays. There isn't another place they can erect the building? Sure, it's always more convenient to build in easely accesible area's, while whole parts of cities and towns slowly degrade to ruines. Far more atractive that way.

You just have to draw the line somewhere. It's always about the economy, always as if that little piece of nature getting lost won't harm the eco-system. Well, add up all the little projects they start year after year and you'll be surprised! We can not go on like this!

There's plenty of opportunity to save the butterfly and build the hotel on an other spot, when the developpers would start thinking flexible, instead of going for the path of least resistance ( in their eyes).

[quote]

Animals and species were dying out LOOONG before we started tinkering with things.

The fact that species go extinct naturally doesn't mean we should give the proces a helping hand! That's just short-term thinking!

[quote]
Animals and species were dying out LOOONG before we started tinkering with things.

T-Rex got knocked off due to a natural cataclysm. We ate all the Dodo's.

Cataclysm. I like that. Very descriptive.

Not quite right on the Dodo according to this. http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/treasure_fossil/Treasures/Dodo/dodo.html?dinos

Some of the birds may have been eaten by the Dutch sailors who discovered them. However, the primary causes of their extinction were the destruction of the forest (which cut off the Dodo's food supply), and the animals that the sailors brought with them, including cats, rats, and pigs, which destroyed Dodo nests.

Description
The Karner blue is a small butterfly with a wing span of approximately one inch. In the male, the upper surface of all four wings is a deep violet-blue fringed with white. In the female, the upper surface is a dusky brownish blue with orange spots on the edge of the hindwing. The lower surface is a pale silver with white- ringed black spots and rows of bright orange and blue markings near the edge of the hindwings. The protective coloration of the larva, which reaches half an inch in length before changing into a pupa, perfectly matches the green leaves of the vegetation. The larva is covered with very fine hairs.

Life History
Like all butterflies, the Karner blue has four stages in its life cycle - the egg, the larva (caterpillar), the pupa (chrysalis), and the adult (butterfly). There are two generations per year. The first generation adults appear in late May to mid-June. Females lay eggs on the underside of a leaf or stem of the food plant, blue lupine (Lupinus perrennis). These eggs hatch in seven to eight days. Forty to fifty percent of the eggs survive to the adult stage. The resulting second brood adults, emerging in mid-July to early August, lay their eggs singly in dried lupine seed pods or near the ground on the stems. Eggs of the second brood overwinter, to hatch the next May. Karner blue adults are nectar-feeders, aiding in the pollination of a variety of wildflowers. The larvae, however, are highly specialized, feeding exclusively on the wild blue lupine leaves. Without blue lupine, the Karner blue would not survive.

Distribution and Habitat
The Karner blue is found in scattered localities from Minnesota to New Hampshire. In New York, the butterfly is found in certain parts of the Hudson Valley sand belt which extends from the Albany Pine Bush north to the Glens Falls area.

Within its range, this species is restricted to dry sandy areas with open woods and clearings supporting wild blue lupine. This type of habitat is usually associated with pitch pine/scrub oak or oak savannah communities that are maintained by fire at an early stage of plant succession.

Status
The Karner blue is experiencing a decline primarily due to human activities such as agriculture, urbanization and fire suppression. The sandy habitat essential to the blue lupine, and therefore the Karner blue, occurs mostly along river valleys and outwash plains. Because of the location and topography of such areas, they have been heavily favored as settlement sites. Extinctions of entire populations of the Karner blue have occurred around large urban centers such as Chicago and New York City. Other populations, such as those in the Albany Pine Bush, have been reduced both by habitat destruction from urbanization and by loss of lupine through natural succession resulting from fire suppression. The most intact populations remain in Saratoga County.

Management and Research Needs
Research is being conducted to develop methods of enhancing or creating habitat suitable for the Karner blue butterfly, in particular, the establishment and propagation of wild blue lupine. Methods used to establish or restore appropriate habitat conditions for blue lupine and the Karner blue include mowing and controlled burning. Protecting habitat from development is also important in preserving this species. Several of the largest populations of the Karner blue in New York are currently protected and managed by the Department of Environmental Conservation under cooperative agreements with landowners.

A recovery strategy for the Karner Blue is being developed by a cooperative working group of DEC, NY'S Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, The Nature Conservancy, and the Albany Pine Bush Commission. The efforts of this partnership, involvement of local towns and counties, and the cooperation of private landowners offer the greatest hope for the recovery of this unique species in New York.

It sure is pretty..

I voted butterfly. Build a hotel somewhere else.