The right to die

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The right to die

Postby jordonj » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:14 pm

I'm sure most of you know about the current storm about Terry Schaivo and whether her tube should be re-inserted, or she should be allowed to die....while I have no intention of typing my opinion in this matter (or my opinion on the issues surrounding it), I'm just curious:

Is there any member of SimV who would want to be kept alive in such a state?
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Re: The right to die

Postby Hagar » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:28 pm

No easy answer to this & each case must be individually judged by the people who know best. That's the medical experts. However difficult it might be I would have to accept their advice on that. I only know what I've heard on brief news reports on the radio so I'm not qualified to comment on this particular case. I'm not in favour of keeping people alive artificially unless there's a good chance of recovery with some quality of life. This wouldn't have cropped up before the technology was available & she would have been allowed to pass away naturally. I'm quite certain that in the past people have been quietly assisted to die to prevent further suffering. You would shoot an animal in similar circumstances to put it out of its misery.
Last edited by Hagar on Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Craig. » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:32 pm

To avoid arguments i wont make my thoughts known on this. Sadly though whatever the outcome the woman in question is being made to suffer more than if they made one option and stuck to it.
And recently lawyers have delt with alot more requests for legal written documents to make sure this doesnt happen to them.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Sock » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:35 pm

What good is life if you can't enjoy it?
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Re: The right to die

Postby Craig. » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:37 pm

4 days without water for an active person.
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Re: The right to die

Postby jordonj » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:42 pm

I have heard of hospitals and family members defying written requests to be allowed to die...when I worked in a nursing home downstate, one woman's family (who were all either doctors or EMTs) tried to take their Grandmother to a hospital to get a feeding tube inserted despite a written order by her not to do so.  Another family moved their relative there because the facility he was at first in refused to remove a feeding tube.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Paz » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:52 pm

 If all my life consisted of was laying in a hospital bed for years on end unable to do anything interesting with no chance of recovery....kill me.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Craig. » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:52 pm

Sometimes family members cant deal with the grief of loosing their family members and thus cant accept these orders be they written or vebal. I feel this is probably the case in this case. I could never blame family members for this as the thought of loosing a relative is hard enough, but when you know you have a choice naturally a parents/ childs instinct is to preserve their loved ones life.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:52 pm

As far as I know this person has spent the last 15 years in a coma and she is brain dead. There is no chance of recovery and she was kept alive just for the sake of it. She should have been allowed to die a long time ago and no the tube should not be put back in.
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Re: The right to die

Postby RichieB16 » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:02 pm

These have always been interesting situations, because it seems like different experts have different views of what "death" is.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Hagar » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:19 pm

[quote]Unfotunately, I also think that the patient has the right to live.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Romulus111VADT » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:53 pm

As far as I know this person has spent the last 15 years in a coma and she is brain dead. There is no chance of recovery and she was kept alive just for the sake of it. She should have been allowed to die a long time ago and no the tube should not be put back in.


She is in a "persistent vegetative state" and has been for 15 years. She is not "Brain Dead" and I'm not sure if she's ever been in a coma. Her parents insist that she responds to them and have presented a video that frankly isn't that convincing.

Her husband, has a huge conflict of interest. He has a "common law" wife and children. He was awarded $1,500,000.00 dollars from a medical malpractice law suite for care of his wife. One of her hospice nurses accused him of trying to kill her with an overdose of insulin. But it was never taken to court. The sooner the wife dies, the richer the husband will be.

I don't understand why "guardianship" of the woman can't go back to the parents if they want her alive. Unless the $1,500,000.00 dollars would be lost by the husband. So far he has refused to turn custody over to her parents. Which in my view is even more proof of his greed.

As for myself, I wouldn't want to be a burden on my family and would prefer to meet my Lord.
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Re: The right to die

Postby Saitek » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:53 pm

We don't know what she is thinking. She could be actually not responsive to the ouside world yet be active inside. This is terrilble torture starving her without water and food. I think they should keep her alive. She never asked to be murdered by her husband.
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Re: The right to di

Postby Scottler » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:05 pm

I've been following this case for about three years now, and I'm ashamed to admit I've only become proactive in it in the last few weeks.

There are several misnomers in this thread.  My goal is not to change anyone's mind.  That would be pointless.  But I think you'll all agree that in order to answer the question fairly, you need to know all of the facts.

1.  Terri Schiavo is not in a coma.  She is not brain dead.  She is awake, her eyes are open, and she is able to communicate - albeit crudely - with her family.

2.  There is no evidence that this is what Terri wanted.  In fact, the only evidence submitted by Michael Schiavo (her husband) that supports that theory is his word.  Last I knew, hearsay was not admissible in a court of law.

3.  For seven  years, Michael Schiavo said that he was going to do everything in his power to help Terri.  Three months after he received a $2.5 million medical malpractice settlement, he then remembered the conversation during which he claims that Terri expressed her wishes.

4.  During the aforementioned seven year period, Michael Schiavo was saying in court that he loved his wife.  Then he'd go home to the woman whom he'd shacked up with, and fathered two children.

5.  One of the key players in this case is Judge George Greer.  Judge Greer recorded evidence in an early trial as "found facts".  The same evidence that he reviewed and listed as "fact" is what the other 19 judges are required to consider as fact, whether or not it is actually fact.

6.  Judge Greer has refused to allow the submission of evidence in support of Terri living.  This evidence includes evidence that Michael himself may have been responsible for Terri's even being in this state.  Several medical professionals have submitted affidavits to support this theory.

7.  Witnesses have reported under oath that they have fed Terri, and that she is capable of swallowing.  Judge Greer has refused swallowing tests, stating that if the tests are conducted, Terri could choke to death.

8.  Dr. William Cheshire, a Mayo clinic expert neurologist, says that Terri is NOT in a persistant vegitative state, but in a minimal state of consciousness.  Two totally different things.

9.  Michael Schiavo has banned some of Terri's family members from visiting her.

10.  Michael Schiavo has ordered that no therapy be given to Terri.  Because Michael considers brushing one's teeth to be "therapy", Terri's teeth have not been brushed in several years.

11.  One of the wishes of Terri's family, is that she be allowed to have her last rites read to her before she dies.  Because taking the Eucharist would be considered "eating", this practice will not be allowed.

12.  Michael Schiavo has not spent a dime on Terri's care.  In fact, the money that he got in the med-mal settlement that was supposed to be used for her care has been spent on his legal expenses, courtesy of Judge Greer.

I could go on, but I won't.  My hope is that those of you who are interested in learning the facts of this disgusting case of spousal abuse, this case of legal murder, will visit Terri's website at www.terrisfight.org.



EDIT:  Another common myth is that Terri is on life support.  She is not.  Her heart beats as yours and mine.  She breathes on her own.  The only time the feeding tube is even attached is when they want to feed her.  As we have seen over the course of this last horrific week, Terri is perfectly capable of living without machines.
Last edited by Scottler on Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Great edit, Bob.


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Re: The right to die

Postby Hagar » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:11 pm

I'm not sure what the difference is between being "brain dead" & in a "persistent vegetative state". Nether sounds very pleasant to me & the possibility of anything resembling quality of life seems very remote. I know what I would want in these circumstances. To be allowed to die as quickly & painlessly as possible. As the law stands in my country it's illegal to help me on my way so the only way is to deprive me of food & water. You wouldn't let an animal suffer in this way, in fact you'd be prosecuted for it, but because I'm a human being I will have to. ::) OK, if that's the way it must be for pity's sake stop messing me around & get on with it. You can argue all you like when I'm gone as I won't be there to worry about it.

*PS. Not that I have any worries on that score. My daughter can have all I possess now & she doesn't have to wait until I pass away to get hold of it. She also knows my wishes & I just hope that if ever I was in this state they would allow her to carry them out.
Last edited by Hagar on Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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