whoops

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Re: whoops

Postby HawkerTempest5 » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:05 pm

Being the Patriot I am, I enjoyed reading this account, but lets be fair, the F-15's would have gone for a BVR missile engagement and even if it had come to a dogfight, the Typhoon, unlike the real Hawker version, has no gun! I honestly can't see the point in having a highly agile dogfighter without a gun ??? Did we learn nothing from US experience in Viet Nam?
Last edited by HawkerTempest5 on Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: whoops

Postby Craig. » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:07 pm

I have read somewhere they have had an encounter i will do some research into it to find out the details and how accurate it is.
In reality the Eurofighter and F-22 or even F-15 will never actually face off in anger so its never gonna be answered for sure:) just too many variables in air combat to know for sure.
As for the designs remember the Americans were designing their planes for a possible strike into the soviet union. Which meant they would have to travel long distances undetected thus the need for stealth. Western europe being alot closer meant they needed quick response hard hitting planes that could dogfight with the short range attackers they might face off against.
Of course with the end of the cold war and the soviet union that meant the need for these types died off so much, but it would proove to costly to change the designs, and since it was considered a huge jump as it was in technology they stuck with it.
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Re: whoops

Postby Felix/FFDS » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:24 pm

I have read somewhere they have had an encounter i will do some research into it to find out the details and how accurate it is.
In reality the Eurofighter and F-22 or even F-15 will never actually face off in anger so its never gonna be answered for sure:)


And Israeli Spitfires never tangles with Arab Spitfires either ....  and Pakistani Starfighters didn't fight Indian Hunters, and the Iranians don't have F-14s, the Iraquis didn't fly Mirage F.1s .. etc. etc.

One can't really say where the next "bite" is going to come from, history is full of surprises.
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Re: whoops

Postby Felix/FFDS » Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:20 pm


The Typhoon is a competant aircraft that can hold its own against all the opposition in service today. That is all I have been trying to say.


I don't think that anyone will dispute the fact.

I hope that no one has to REALLY find out, either.
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Re: whoops

Postby denishc » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:05 pm

 Actually the addition of a gun pod on the F-4 Phantom was never a good solution for the lack of an internal weapon.  Although the 20mm gun pod used was a good weapon it could never be stabilized enough to be used accurately in air to air combat, no matter how many sway braces were attached to it.  As far as I know only one air to air "kill" was accomplished using a gun pod on the F-4 during the Vietnam war.
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Re: whoops

Postby HawkerTempest5 » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:09 am

I'm not knocking the Typhoon at all. It was designed from day one with an internal cannon. All our European partners will have guns in their Typhoons but or leaders decided to save a few quid and make our boys do without. A gun pod solution should not even be an option because it should have had a gun in the first place. There, rant over ;)
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Re: whoops

Postby Craig. » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:21 am

the design parameters of the Eurofighter allows a cannon to be added at a cost though. If you really want proof that the MOD have lost it, they have just bought some new chinooks costing
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Re: whoops

Postby ozzy72 » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:27 am

What you have to consider Craig is a comparison like this is like comparing a Sopwith Tripe against a Supermarine Spitfire. Things have come a long way and there are always improvements...
Personally I like the new Typhoon, she looks great, but lets not forget that the Eagle has been on the front line for many decades and earned her place in history (especially in the Cold War and the Middle East) as a truely magnificent fighter that like its predecessor the Phantom far outlived its expected life and expanded its role far beyond what was originally envisaged.
Now does anyone know if the USAF would let me have one cheap? ;D ;D ;D Just a little something for the weekend 8)

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Re: whoops

Postby Craig. » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:02 pm

lol yes i understand that the eagle is old, but it was the F-15 pilots who jumped the eurofighter pilots, they obviously had more expectations out of their aircraft than it could provide. But remember this came down to a close in dog fight, the eurofighter is prob not much more manuverable than some of these super manuverable russian aircraft that the russians had
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Re: whoops

Postby ozzy72 » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:12 pm

Alas all fighter pilots think they are God, and that goes double for Naval Aviators ;D ;D ;D
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Re: whoops

Postby ATI_7500 » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:39 pm

Will the EF also replace the Tornado?
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Re: whoops

Postby Felix/FFDS » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:47 pm

Alas all fighter pilots think they are God, and that goes double for Naval Aviators ;D ;D ;D


Let's see - you're a Naval Aviator, you've taken off a carrier in the middle of an ocean, do your mission, come back, and have to find the freaking thing with no ground reference by which to steer, then hopefully, you can spot the dot, line up, and as you land, ram the throttle on full power, while hoping that the hook will catch a wire and the wire won't break ... and that's in good weather...
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Re: whoops

Postby Craig. » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:10 pm

yes its eventually will replace the tornado, as to when exactly i dont know.

As for naval aviators, they crazy, simple as that;)
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