Simviation Forums

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:02 am**

Some survivors of United Airlines Flight 232 have found a way to repay a pilot who helped save their lives 15 years ago: pitching in for his daughter's bone marrow transplant.

Al Haynes' plea for his daughter, Laurie Arguello, helped her raise the $256,000 needed for the procedure.

Haynes made a heroic crash landing when one of the plane's engines burst July 19, 1989. The crew used throttles on the two remaining engines to make an emergency landing in Sioux City. Of the 296 people aboard, 184 survived. While cruising at FL370 on a flight from Denver to Chicago, the no.2 engine suffered an uncontained failure. Shrapnel from the engine damaged all three main hydraulic lines in the tail, causing a total loss of hydraulics aboard the aircraft. Using engine thrust, Captain Al Haynes, First Officer William Records, and dead-heading Captain Dennis Fitch successfully crash-landed the airplane on runway 22 at the Sioux City Gateway Airport. Touching down just right of centerline at 225 knots, the aircraft cartwheeled and burst into flames. Photos here of accident. http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua232/photo.shtml

Contributions poured in after Haynes sent a letter last year to friends saying his 39-year-old daughter was trying to raise money for the surgery and subsequent care. Word also spread through national and local media coverage.

"I read a letter from someone whose friend didn't survive Flight 232," she told The Seattle Times. "They made a donation in that person's name, which made me cry."

Survivors said they wanted to help not because of what Haynes and his crew did more than a decade ago, but because of the support he has provided since then. "He has always had time for anyone connected with the crash".

I thought this was a touching story.
Dave

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:23 am**

I remember this incident well. An incredible piece of airmanship. Imagine trying to control any sort of aircraft let alone a jet airliner with just the engines.

The tragedy was that they almost made it. The fact that so many people survived is a miracle.

I hope that Capt Haynes' daughter makes it too.

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ua232.shtml

Subsequent simulator tests showed that other DC-10 crews were unable to repeat the effort of the crew of 232. Investigators concluded that, in its damaged condition, it was not possible to land the aircraft on a runway. As a result, the crew was given much praise for managing to put the aircraft down just off the runway centerline and saving as many lives as they did.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:33 am**

when i first heard about this i wanted to help but i didnt have the money. I am really glad they raised the money for his daughter, what this guy did was amazing, and while i am sure he never expected to be repaid for it, this is probably the best way for many people to say thanks for what he and his crew did that day.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:22 pm**

That is a truely noble gesture.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:48 pm**

$256,000

It's great that the surviviors are doing this for the pilot and his family but I want to know how anyone can justify the cost of the operation

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:51 pm**

My Private Pilot's manual has a page where it talks about the incident. unbelievable

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:11 pm**

Here in America, the cost of high medical procedures are common. Heck people voluntarily will change their breast size, tuck their tummy, change their nose, and many other voluntary things for a 1/4 of that price. Thus, much needed medical procedures are increased. Add to that the health care system's high cost and plastic surgery prices and this is just another bill that the common person can not pay! :(

Dave

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:39 pm**

[quote]Here in America, the cost of high medical procedures are common. Heck people voluntarily will change their breast size, tuck their tummy, change their nose, and many other voluntary things for a 1/4 of that price. Thus, much needed medical procedures are increased. Add to that the health care system's high cost and plastic surgery prices and this is just another bill that the common person can not pay!

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:56 pm**

but on the landing with only engine power for control.... that guy has some "mad skillz," holy poop, just thinking about that...wow. I assume he still had control of the ailerons and flaps, I think the different control surfaces would be on seperate hydrolic systems

but wow

All control surfaces were out including the ailerons. Not sure about the flaps. The trim was jammed too making it turn to the right. They controlled it on throttles alone.

From my previous link.

It turned out that one of the passengers on board flight 232 was Dennis Fitch, a United training and check pilot with over 3,000 hours on the DC-10. Haynes asked Fitch to go back and look out the windows to check for any structural damage. When Fitch returned to the flight deck, he informed Haynes that the both of the inboard ailerons were sticking up, but none of the controls appeared to be damaged or moving.

Haynes asked Fitch to take control of the throttle levers to allow the crew time to sort out the other decisions they were facing. Fitch knelt down in front of the controls and began to work with the throttles to maintain control of the aircraft. During this time, the aircraft had completed two slow right turns while descending. Calling Sioux City approach, Haynes requested the ILS (Instrument Landing System) frequency for runway 31 (9,000ft).

The crew continued to prepare for an emergency landing, dumping fuel and extending the landing gear. A flight attendent reported that she saw damage to the aircraft's horizontal stabilizer which Dvorak went back and confirmed. The aircraft was now descending through 9,000ft some 21 miles northeast of the airport. Approach asked 232 to fly southbound to keep it east of the city and set it up for an approach to runway 31.

Fitch was unable to fight the aircraft's continuing efforts to turn right and, instead of turning southbound, the aircraft again flew a 360 which Fitch was able to stop just as the airport lay ahead of them. They were now 12 miles from the airport and lined up with the closed runway, the 6888ft. runway 22.

Fortunately, there was an open field at the far end of the runway. The controller cleared them to use the closed runway and the crew managed to get the aircraft flying straight. Unfortunately, they couldn't accurately control the airspeed and sink rate. They were descending at over 1,600 feet per minute at around 215 knots. In an incredible feat of airmanship, they managed to touch down near the beginning of the runway just off the centerline. Unfortunately, the starboard wingtip touched down just prior to the landing gear, pulling the aircraft sideways. The excess airspeed and high sink rate caused the aircraft to break up on impact, igniting into a huge fireball. Amazingly, depsite the explosion and high speed break-up, 185 people survived the accident, including all four cockpit crew members.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:12 pm**

You have to read the accident report. There was a total loss of hydraulics. All lines were severed!! The plane was flown only by applying thrust to each engine to make it turn. It flew around in a downward spiral only to come in hard at over 200mph. It took three people to constantly maneuver the aircraft. Actually, there was a pilot who was a passenger who came up front to help out. Discovery ran a special on this incident. It was incredible to see the reenactment, the visual reenactment and the stories from this accident. The pilots were truly heroes in this instance.

Dave

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:29 pm**

The plane was flown only by applying thrust to each engine to make it turn. It flew around in a downward spiral only to come in hard at over 200mph. It took three people to constantly maneuver the aircraft. Actually, there was a pilot who was a passenger who came up front to help out. Discovery ran a special on this incident. It was incredible to see the reenactment, the visual reenactment and the stories from this accident. The pilots were truly heroes in this instance.

I saw the doc some time ago. As I recall they could control the rate of decent to some extent with the throttles. Increase revs on both engines to climb & vice versa. The same for the roll axis, increase revs on one side to lift the wing. This was fine while they were flying at altitude. The problems came when they had to lose altitude & slow it down for the actual landing & the wing dropped just at the wrong moment as they touched the runway. It looked like a gust of wind caught it but this might have been due to the trim being jammed. Otherwise they might have got away with it. When you look at the photos they were almost perfectly lined up with the runway & touched down right on the spot. An amazing example of skill by all concerned. I almost cried with frustration when I saw how close they came to pulling it off.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:37 pm**

[quote] $256,000

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:40 pm**

That is very touching.

It's great that the surviviors are doing this for the pilot and his family but I want to know how anyone can justify the cost of the operation

Your response crazycraig, however, is nearly enough to move me to tears, and am truly offended that you have put a price on a human head, much less Cpt. Haynes daughter.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:48 pm**

Iced in Britain the system is different, we have the NHS (National Health Service) we pay taxes and when we have to go to hospital there is no charge (unless you go private of course).
So what Craig meant was how can anyone justify putting a price on a life-saving operation? In Britain we would just get the operation, no ifs, no buts (kind of!)
He did not intended to hurt anyones feelings, its just a different system and hard for Brits to comprehend the American system.

Ozzy

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:49 pm**

i'm sorry but i have to disagree with you foxtrotter. The US medical system from an outsiders perspective does nothing but, put a price on a persons life. If you dotn have insurance or the money to pay for an operation you dont get it. And while the NHS is far from perfect, it doesnt put a price on a persons head. When my mom had her car accident a few years back we totaled up the costs had we lived in America to well over $50,000 maybe alot more, and if we didnt have the proper insurance or money we would have either been SOL or she may not have survived. The NHS did multiple surgerys a month in hospital, various differant medicines, ICU and god knows how many X-rays all at a total cost of the daily car parking ticket.

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Survivors repay pilot via his daughter

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