Simviation Forums

This latest news - Virgin pilot taken off of 747-400 in USA, smelling of alcohol, pre passenger boarding !

Howdy Ian,
I saw this to and thought it was a joke at first, but it really isnt, sadly i think some pilots take for granted the job they do guys like this seem to think because of seniority they can get away with more. Only recently there was a French captain who made a joke about a bomb in his luggage, at check in. A person of his position and experience should know better. Then again if these guys wanna waste their chances there are tons of people including me who would take that opportunity for pennies really.

There is a discussion on this & wider issues in the Cafe. The individual concerned has not been tried yet so we will have to await results before making specific comments or accusations. Unfortunately there will always be a danger of alcohol & other drug abuse due to human frailties. This problem is not restricted to the young or lower classes in society & quite often the opposite. Like many others in positions of power some senior airline captains have always considered themselves above the law & expect their junior colleagues to cover up for them. As the captain is king aboard his aircraft they would usually do so. This sort of thing was quite common years ago among some senior staff on all major airlines but hopefully it is now rare.

quote "This problem is not restricted to the young or lower classes "

Hagar - what (or who) are the 'lower classes' ?

IanR

Ian. Drug & alcohol abuse are often mistakenly associated with the young or down-and-outs in our society. I used the expression "lower classes" for want of a better description. I intended no offence.

Hagar

tread carefully here please - you are moving off topic

regards

IanR

Ian. I often wander off-topic & am well known for doing so. In this case I was simply trying to answer your question. If I have offended you in some way I apologise. I thought that my experience of the airline industry might have helped explain how this sad event could happen. Obviously I was wrong.

Ian. I often wander off-topic & am well known for doing so.

Ain't that the truth for all of us? I belive all of us are guilty at one time or another.

Hagar

Sorry, but you touched on my 'West of Scotland' raw nerve to the word 'class' when applied to people. Please accept my apology for this 'knee jerk' response. I very much appreciate your comments to my topic and am sure that we all hope that the worst consruction on the affair does not, in fact, apply, and that the Virgin pilot was in fact only sucking on a cough drop ! ?

Regards

IanR

Hagar

Sorry, but you touched on my 'West of Scotland' raw nerve to the word 'class' when applied to people. Please accept my apology for this 'knee jerk' response. I very much appreciate your comments to my topic and am sure that we all hope that the worst consruction on the affair does not, in fact, apply, and that the Virgin pilot was in fact only sucking on a cough drop ! ?

Regards

IanR

I really shouldn't be accepting somebody else's appology, but, I know hagar will accept. Besides, don't be sorry. This kind of thing happens. Its a language barrier. Neither side meant anything harmful, so, there isn't really anything bad that happened.

Ian. It seems that my, perhaps careless, use of an expression got us off on the wrong foot. I would never deliberately offend anyone so I suggest we start again.

I was a poor kid brought up on a council estate & proud of it. Although I spent the last few years of a long career in the aviation industry in senior management I always considered myself "working class" & still do.

lower, working, middle, upper class - we all fall victim to the use of these slurs - no offence taken.

Best regards

IanR

The difference is that I don't consider it a slur. Being called "working class" to me is something to be proud of, not ashamed or offended by. I was lucky & got a few breaks along the way but I worked my guts off to achieve what I did.

Anyway, this is thread has now wandered completely off-topic. I'm not sure which one of us is to blame for that. LOL

No offence intended & I hope none taken.

Doug - working class & proud of it.

anyway........back ON topic! Alcoholism is a learned attribute, stemmed from years of aviation grooming.

Seriously, I had this discussion with my first officer at the bar tonight!  (Just kidding)Actually it was on the ride home from the airport, post crew change. The basic MEAT of the conversation was THIS. Most of us can make sober decisions to carry ourselves in a proper manner. Given a few drinks though, some of the most idiotic acts and utterances can occur. The argument is are you responsible for said acts and utterances. My argument was that the decision to take A drink in the first place, is the REAL act of irresponsibility. Honestly, who, in there right mind says after the FIRST drink, "I'm gonna have about TEN more, grope my bosses wife at the annual christmas party, punch out my best friend and then run to the airport and try to fly a 747 across the Atlantic Ocean!" Timing, I think, is the answer to THIS mystery. If he knew he was flying an airplane in less than a few hours he should have abstained(sp?). Unfortunately, invincibility is another virtue that is instilled in us as pilots from training day one. Not directly mind you. It's just that Aviation is a fiercely competitive business, and it starts early on, and is carried on from one generation to the next. I have been in the aviation business for 22years(I took my first flight lesson at 13), and pilots, in my experience, work hard and play hard. This is NOT an excuse for our kind, but an explanation for where the mentality comes from. Simply put, and this is mostly for guys like you Craig, fly a day as a jet Captain, through convective weather and icing conditions, in an airplane with sub-par equipment, with a couple hundred passengers that consider you as just an overpaid flying busdriver that can't seem to get them "there" on time, and see if you don't need a drink at the end of the day.

I think that this is the case in just about any stressful profession OTTOL.  You spend your shift making decisions, dealing with stuff and taking abuse and then you need to unwind and many, many people take solace in alcohol.  The problem with this pilot is that he felt he needed a drink befoire he flew and that is unforgivable.  If I did this I could land up in jail and so should he.  He is supposed to be a professional and this requires you to act in a certain way, he has failed and thus should take the consequences.

Will