Simviation Forums

From Yahoo:

Apparently, the middle finger has long been considered a phallic symbol in many cultures, possibly because it is the longest of the digits. Displaying it to someone is an insult of the first degree, though the gesture seems to be one of aggression rather than sexuality. According to a contributor on the always interesting Urban Legends Archive, the upright stab of the middle finger represents "phallic domination/hostility."

Despite the popular and widely circulated story that the gesture comes from the 1415 battle of Agincourt, this ultimate insult actually dates back as far as to ancient Greece and Rome. The first written record of someone "flipping the bird" comes from the writings of Aristophanes, who spoke of it in "The Clouds," a play from 423 B.C. The Romans even had a special name for the middle finger -- they called it digitus infamis (infamous finger) or digitus impudicus (indecent finger).

Though the interpretation of the gesture varies from country to country, it is fairly widespread. In England, one might display either the middle finger solo, or the index and middle finger together (with the palm facing inward) to convey the same message. And in a recent court case in Japan, a judge ruled, "The sign of raising the middle finger with the back of one's right hand down is recognized in Japan as an act signifying insult or provocation, although it is not as common as in the U.S."

These days, the gesture is becoming more commonplace and is danger of losing some of its "badness." Witness all these celebrities famously giving the finger. It seems even squeaky clean pop princess Britney is not above displaying her longest digit. What is the world coming to?

def interesting read:)
although these days and famous people using it, well they are all 5 years behind as it was good old stone cold steve austin who started the middle finger raising trend amongst the younger generation back in 98:) well brought it into just common place.

Thats cool.

Despite what Yahoo says there is evidence that the "V" sign (not the middle finger salute) does date from the 100 years war.  It was not so much an insult but a way of indicating to the French that our archers were able to fight.  When the French captured an English archer they amputated the index and middle finger of the right hand to prevent effective drawing of the bow.

It should be remembered that at Agincourt in 1415 the French were defeated by almost exactly the same tactics as at Crecy in 1346 (massed archers slaughtering mounted knights).  The French had good reason to perform this radical surgery and we had good reason to demonstrate that they hadn't.  I'm not saying that this is the starting point of the tradition of the insult, just the medieval English interpretation of it.

Will

I must say that it is a gesture that I would never use... ...!
Over here it can be an arrestable offence if it is likely to create a conflict and cause a breach of the peace...!
A motorist can be arrested if he/she raises the middle finger in anger, when driving in traffic... ...!

So beware... ...!!
...a wave and a smile is much nicer... ...!
LOL...!

Cheers all... ...!
Paul.
(England).

Once my grandmother was driving and passed a motorist, who in return pointed a gun at her

Once my grandmother was driving and passed a motorist, who in return pointed a gun at her

Hi Andrew... ...!

Raising the middle fingure to someone who they dont like, is generally done by people who WISH that they had a gun to use instead.... ...!

...it's a sad world we live in... ...!

Cheers Andrew... ...!
Paul.
(England).

 In the U.S., if you haven't noticed, East coasters gesture differently then West coasters when "flipping" someone off.  East coaster tend to ball their hand into a fist leaving only the middle finger exposed.  I'm told this is so that the "finger" can be quickly retraced and the hand be readed for fighting!

I didn't know the history of this "flipping off". Whether it's true or not, I always understood the good old British V sign, with index & middle fingers extended, originated at Agincourt. The story goes that without these fingers, captured English longbow archers could safely be released as they could take no further part in the battle. The V sign was used to taunt the French by proving they still possessed these all-important digits & has been a traditional light-hearted insult since. We often used the V sign at school. As young lads we knew it was rude but we didn't appreciate its significance or history then. Winston Churchill adopted the 2-finger V sign as his "V for Victory" salute throughout WWII. I never saw it as an aggressive gesture.

I didn't come across the single-finger gesture until comparatively recently & first saw it used in Hollywood films. I always though it particularly crude

 Hagar wrote, "I didn't come across the single-finger gesture until comparatively recently....".
 From what I've heard "flipping the bird" did not become prominent in Europe until after the Second World War.  The gestsure was probably left behind by U.S. GIs!!
 This is not to say that Europeans did not have other hand gestures of equivalent meaning.  (The clenched fist in the crux of the folded arm comes readily to mind, but there are others depending what part of Europe your from.)

 As for the "V" for sign, its meaning has change somewhat also.  Since the "Hippie" days of the late 1960's if the "V" sign is given with the palm facing out it stands for "Peace".  If it is give with the back of the hand facing out then it stands for "Victory".

 Hagar wrote, "I didn't come across the single-finger gesture until comparatively recently....".
 From what I've heard "flipping the bird" did not become prominent in Europe until after the Second World War.  The gestsure was probably left behind by U.S. GIs!!
 This is not to say that Europeans did not have other hand gestures of equivalent meaning.  (The clenched fist in the crux of the folded arm comes readily to mind, but there are others depending what part of Europe your from.)

 As for the "V" for sign, its meaning has change somewhat also.  Since the "Hippie" days of the late 1960's if the "V" sign is given with the palm facing out it stands for "Peace".  If it is give with the back of the hand facing out then it stands for "Victory".

[quote]From what I've heard "flipping the bird" did not become prominent in Europe until after the Second World War.

 I get it now!!! Mr. Churchill was actully telling the Jerrys off!  How sly!  I was always told it was "V" for Victory, excuse me for being so dense.

Denis. I'm sure he would have denied it but who really knows? I think most people took it as a sign for Victory during WWII. This would be the normal meaning with the palm facing outwards.

One warning to anyone from the US visiting the UK. Be careful when indicating 2 with your fingers. Given with the hand facing the wrong way it might get you into trouble - or at least some very strange looks.

 Hagar........thanks for the warning.