ouch! that's not fear, they did as much as the pilots......
I believe you may have misunderstood me. I have nothing but respect for the Air gunners of all the combatant nations of WW2.
My point was simply that there is a huge discrepancy in the number of kills claimed and the number of fighters shot down. The raid I'm referring to was one of the worst days of the eigth airforce. A lot of bombers were lost and 100's of men killed. It is almost impossible during air-to-air combat to be sure whether a plane has been damaged, destroyed or has got away damage free.
In addition no single gunner could be sure that the kill was his, therefore 5 waist gunners, three tail gunners and two ball turret gunners could all be awarded credit for the same kill. If in reality this "kil"l had simply been damaged and forced to retire from combat 10 kills would be awarded to a squadron for the net loss of no planes to the luftwaffe.
This was and is a problam in all theatres of war and on all sides. Luftwaffe pilots often claimed, and were awarded a kill if they believed that they had caused enough damage to a bomber to make its crashing inevitable. There are many accounts of B-17's and B-24's beimg claimed in this was.
To close I intended no respect whatsoever to the veterans and those who were lost in combat operations during WW2, it was a comment on statistical fact, not personal bravery.
Will