War Talk in these forums.

If it doesn't fit .. It fits here .. - -

Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Smoke2much » Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:34 pm

I think that the best plan would be for individual members of the forum to decide for themselves not to post or reply to war related threads.

If someone is making insulting threads against individuals and/or nationalities it would be more mature to simply not respond and kill the thread in that way.

We all know that on this subject the views of our governments do not represent the views of all of the citizens of our countries.  This is the same with all political subjects.

Equally we are all aware that the views of the members of the forum do not represent the views of the forum, this is NOT a democracy it is a collection of individuals with individual opinions.

I got my fingers burned on one discussion and have left the subject well alone since.

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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby BMan1113VR » Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:34 pm

you guys can talk about war stuff and politics if you want, i just wont have any part in it.
i come here to talk about flightsimming and such. i am also very big on politics, and i don't want people to treat me differently because of my political views, which are quite different from most of the people from my neck of the woods (California:Los Angeles i.e. hollywood).

like i said the decision is up to you, but if there is political discussions here, i will not take part in the thread (at least not under this name ;))
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Professor Brensec » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:21 pm

It would seem that this thread itself has become a bit of a "forum" for war (and political) talk.

I can't talk though, as I'm famous for digressing in threads.....................lol.

Anyway.......back to the discussion. Ahhhh..............where are we?...............oh yeah......motor cycles!

In my teens and early twenties, I used to buy wrecks and second hand junk bikes and rebuild them with my brother. We actually were making enough money over a given period to consider setting up shop as a wrecking shop/used bike & parts concern. But chicken me, didn't want to mortgage my house and risk my kids and my future. I think now, it was a mistake not to try.

We dealt mainly in Jap bikes but had occasion to rebuild a couple of Harleys and a Triumph.
The biggest problem was there wasn't enough 20W50 motor oil in Australia to keep the Triumph topped up.
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Oso » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:30 am

Sorry can't post any pictures - the key word is "Used" to have. Divorced and didn't get custody. But I do not have money problems.

Every time I get money - I get married - then divorced - money goes away, no problem.

Actually - I had to liquidate them along with my Baby Blue TR250A in the divorce. My favorite of the bikes was a '63 BSA 650 unit model - factory race team bike.

Saw the Vincent once - but the owner wouldn't let me ride it - not even touch it.  Remember the Triumph Trident that had the one piece fiberglass body - Hurricane I think they called it. My best friend had the BSA model of that. A Rocket 3 and I forget the name - some years back. He said there was only one ever made - I do not know if that is true, but it seemed reasonable to me. He said it was a prototype. Beautiful thing. The current styling of bikes can not hold a candle to it.

For those who do not know what classic Brit styling is - drool over this -

http://www.allenmuseum.com/shadow.htm

Brensec - read the article - an Aussie had a lot to do with this machine.
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Professor Brensec » Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:48 am

Oso,

My old man had a "Black Shadow" in the '50's. Don't know what model, it had a side car fitted. Mum has a couple of pictures buried away, that I recall seeing years ago.

I followed the link you supplied (interesting) to the Advertisement for the 1945 Rapide. I like the breakdown diagram of the engine. There's nothing in there!.........lol.

The strangest thing I ever came across was when my brother and I were playing about with bikes and managed to pick up a thing called a "Ural Cossack". Obviously Russian, at least I think so. Don't recall alot about it, except we never got it going.  ;D ;D ;)
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby ozzy72 » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:11 am

Brensec, the Ural boys are still churning out bikes! The story of them is at the end of the war the Soviets snatched as many German engineers as they could (I seem to recall the US got Werner von Braun, and the first man on the moon accordingly!), including a number of BMW motorcycle division chaps and their kit (the factory had just been moved from Munich to Eisenach so they could make room for more aero engines in Munich).
The factory has just released a new model the Wolf 750, I have to say they released a motorbike and sidecar combo a few years back and I nearly got it for a laugh!
Basically they are copies of 1930s BMW bikes, not brilliant, but better than a few things I could mention on 2 wheels.

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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby pete » Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:25 am

;D ;D ;D ;D

ahhhh... this is what I love about these forums ....;)

Start out with a serious subject .. even me doing what I'm asking  everyone else not to do by digressing into my own (deliberately provocative) opinions - & you guys are talking motorbikes ....  ;D ;D

That's what I love about this place ..... :)




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Postby Scorpiоn » Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:49 pm

Personally, as Hagar or Fozzer said, I come here to escape reality.  All this massive posting of "Gulf War II" related subjects has really put me off, and I'm starting to come two or three times a week, rather than daily.
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Re: Me

Postby Fozzer » Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:14 pm

[quote]Personally, as Hagar or Fozzer said, I come here to escape reality.
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Professor Brensec » Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:50 pm

Foz, my man,

I can understand anyone getting uptight and concerned over the amount of talk that has been (and still is to a lesser degree) going on regarding the Iraqi conflict.

I have voted, lest our forum become a less pleasant place to be for ourselves and visitors, to ban the postings regarding the current conflict.

But surely, you can't be serious about this:

If anyone wants to vent their feelings on the subject of the current war, (or any other war as far as I am concerned), I would suggest that they register on one of the News Channels, (CNN, etc.), History Channels, etc.


Many, many members of this forum are avid historians and have a great interest in past conflicts (especially WWII) and over a long time, countless discussions and threads have existed much to the enjoyment and education of all who participate.
Let's face it, WWII especially, is intrinsic to CFS1,2 & 3.
They wouldn't exist without it.

I, for one, have never witnessed an argument or fight (with nasty implication) in any thread devoted to discussion about
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby ozzy72 » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:13 am

Brensec I don't think Fozzer is talking about war per se, but just the current episode in Iraq, and his comment states "vent their feelings" not discuss some aspect. I posted something along these lines the other day, of not discussing it until its all over and the dust has settled, then we can have an intelligent and non-inflamatory discussion, like we do about so many other conflicts that have been and gone.
I'm a Gulf War vet. myself, and some of the things posted have brought back memories, both good and bad, but I HAVE to check all the posts. I enjoy being a moderator here, and I've learned some incredible stuff, especially in the field of history from you, Hagar, Pete, Fozzer, Romulus and some of the other elders here. Some of it I've even used in lessons!
However at the moment I think this is still too sensitive (although I've just posted a v.funny story about some Italian journalists to prove war isn't all seriousness and bombs).
As for the equipment, well I think that is a safe topic. Technical stuff fascinates me.

Ozzy :)
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Hagar » Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:36 am

Hmmm. I think we have to distinguish between current events & history here Fozzer. I'm all for NOT discussing the current war until such time this can be done without causing offence to any member on this forum. Emotions are running high right now & some things are best left unsaid. IMHO
Due to voluntary restraint & common sense this seems to be working out just fine without the neccessity of an actual ban. I expected nothing else from my friends of all nationalities & political leanings in this wonderful community. Self-regulation & mutual respect is far better than censorship. This is what makes this hobby (the Simviation forums in particular) so unique & worthwhile in my eyes. ;)

However, as an avid amateur historian I particularly enjoy taking part in the discussions on history, including past wars, that Brensec & Ozzy mention. I would not include these in the same category & we all learn a great deal from them. I think you will find these discussions are always conducted in a polite & respectful manner. If anyone did happen to unwittingly cause offence it would be followed by an immediate apology, I'm sure of that.

Until becoming interested in FS2002 I have always preferred CFS to the civil M$ sims. As a combat sim it's a tad difficult to play it without discussing war. This does not mean we are all completely mindless with an insatiable blood lust. (Come to think of it this does apply to some I could mention. j/k) It might surprise those without any knowledge of CFS that it actually promotes friendship between former enemies, not the reverse. It also demonstrates the horrors of war quite effectively to those, especially young people, who perhaps had never thought about it. Some of our younger members are experts on WWII history & know more than I do on the subject.

The CFS community is truly international & I'm proud to be part of it. I've worked with several multi-national & highly talented design teams on various projects in complete harmony. Their research has improved not only CFS but FS too, much as in real life. CFS also encourages an interest in history which can do nothing but good. IMHO
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Fly2e » Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:35 pm

Hello everybody, interesting views. I just want to post something that I received. It really pertains to my fellow Americans but I found it interesting. And since we are All Freinds and acting responsibly, I just thought this was interesting. Hope it does not offend anybody.  :)

"DO NOT FORGET"





I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by
not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem
communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors and Marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:


-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.


Like I said, this was not to offend anybody, I just thought that if anything on the war is to be read, this was the thread. I respect all my fellow freind's views. I had a little taste of different views, (recently withe somebody in the forum", and realized, the people I converse with here, are "invisible freinds" and it's not worth painting a picture of someone because they don't believe what you do. Does it ever occur to anybody that the place where all the "sticky topics" are, are the political ones. Maybe from this "poll", we will all learn to "keep our views" under control. It is nice to hear the "responsible" views, (like I said hope I did not offend anybody with the above quote,) but this will be MY LAST POSTING ON ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH POLITICAL VIEW THAT MIGHT OFEND ANYONE. It is not worth ruining the sometimes "fragile" respect we have for each other. Glad to see we can all have this "responsible" discussion.
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby Professor Brensec » Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:20 am

For the interest of those members who have not visited a thread which has been devoted to discussion about some aspect of a "past war", here is a quote from one of the many posts in a particular thread dealing with the "terror" of the Kamikaze attacks during late WWII.

Even while some who may still live, that experienced this terror, cannot bring themselvs to forgive and with our own feelings regarding the unfairness and utter cruelty of these (and other) acts perpertrated by the Japanese, we (we who wish to discuss, debate and learn of other conflicts) still have an understanding, decency and consideration to present our "potentially controversial" comments in this way.

This quote concerned the irony that reports of the overall ineffectiveness of Kamikaze attacks didn't get back to the hierarchy because of there being no survivors to report.

P.S. My "lol" is not directed at these obviously very brave and patriotic young men, misguided as they were. It's directed at the irony and ineptitude of the desparate and unreasonable Japanese military.  


We are obviously able to (and do) deal with sensitive subjects with only the greatest degree of consideration.
For those who may be unaware, and think that such discussions are some kind of "glorification" or "revelling" in blood and guts.

;D ;)
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Re: War Talk in these forums.

Postby ozzy72 » Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:01 am

This does not mean we are all completely mindless with an insatiable blood lust. (Come to think of it this does apply to some I could mention. j/k)

Hagar, what can I say, its my job! Try teaching teenage brats and not developing an unhealth interest in seeing their claret ;D ;D ;D

Ozzy :P
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