Ooops

[ozzy72]

Early reports appear to suggest that the US successfully shot down an RAF aircraft last night. There is no sign of the crew at this time, it went down in Kuwait.
I'm not having a go, this is war and accidents happen, but what I would like to know is who the hell term this sick expression "friendly fire"?

Ozzy

[Tequila Sunrise]

for FLUCKS sake going to war alongside america is more dangerouse than going to war with america! >:(
what the hell did they think they were shooting at?
also annother triggerhappy american has just attacked a group of US marines, and it looks like the missing news crew was, you guessed it, attacked by more triggerhappy marines

[ozzy72]

Pop in here and have a look. It will disgust you.

American War Dept. Figures on "friendly fire" casualties (not including "self inflicted") in WWII alone is estimated conservatively at 21%, Persian Gulf War - 49% of all casualties in those conflicts.

http://members.aol.com/amerwar/ff/ff.htm

At least Americas enemies get Ice Cream machines after they loose.  >:(

[ozzy72]

How far off did they say those "extra smart" munitions were.
The ones that determine enemy from friend. Unlike your "extra dumb" grunt.

A little more research in this area please!!

[ozzy72]

Guys, lets please NOT have a go huh?
It really does come down to training, and unfortunately America puts a great deal of relience upon technology, and lets face it they've made some amazing things e.g. the SR-71, but yup their forces are trained to be a bit gung-ho, and its a case of shoot first think later, I think if we're going to blame anyone it should be Hollywood. So protest tonight by not watching the Oscars huh?

Ozzy

[Tequila Sunrise]

Its not that I want to have a go at the yanks but whats the use in technology if you don't know how to use it?
Having technology that is capable of such destruction and not knowing how to use it is playing with fire and eventually someones will get burned

[Blade]

I think the Patriot Missle System has a IFF receiver equipped to it. So if the Tornado was not sending out an IFF we may have thought it was an enemy aircraft, and i'm sure we radioed it first. I know that US Army forces go through extensive training with the Patriots. But accidents do happen, sad for it to be this way.  :(

[Maccers]

Why is bush so determined to find nukes in Iraq anyway? theres one about to go off in my brain if more things like this happen!

[Rifleman]

Guys, lets please NOT have a go huh?

Ozzy

I just love when someone stands close to the stove and stirs the pot,... then jumps back when it starts to boil over........war is the same as peace....different opinions will always make opposite viewpoints turn up the heat .....I am standing by and keeping my ideas to myself, and watching it get hotter by the minute.........

[BFMF]

I think what it boils down to is that we need more  intelligence, communication, cooperation, etc, shared\between our two militaries. I'm not saying we don't have that, but we just need to improve

And like Ken, i'm gonna keep my opinions to myself

[Smoke2much]

If this wasn't so tragic the ability of the US armed forces to inflict casualties on itself and its allies would be quite amusing.

I am a bit of an historian (amatuer) when it comes to military history and blue on blue fire is a constant factor with US troops.

It is tragic that an RAF fighter has been shot down by our allies but this is a war and it is better that two RAF aircrew have lost their lives than the possibility of an Iraqi 'plane getting through and dropping a WMD on Kuwait city for example.

Just as an aside but the most succesful military conflict in US history was the American Civil War.  During the three days of the battle of gettysburg the Confederate army alone lost more men than the British lost during the entire Napoleonic wars (1792-1815).

Will

[Professor Brensec]

I recall that more American soldiers died in the Civil War than the total of all other conflicts since. ie. Mexican, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf and probably a few small ones I don't know about.

It would seem you don't need technology or weapons of mass destruction to wipe people out in droves!

P.S. I doubt anyone is actually "having a go" at the forces in the M.E. It's a matter of frustration. It needs to be vented. After all aren't we talking about venting by way of protest, and most are agreeing that it's a right.

Don't deny ourselves a harmless outlet while we make excuses for those who may not be so harmless. We have as much right to vent as the protesters do.

All we have to do is show them our strength, unity and friendship by not allowing it to become personal, and minding each others feelings.

In closing, there will always be mistakes wherever there are humans. But we are allowed to be upset about it and talk about it, without "pointing the bone".

[Smoke2much]

Couldn't agree more with you brensec.  One of my colleagues is married to a tornado pilot who is based at Marham and out in the Gulf at the moment.

I'm for one not "pointing the bone", but do the Iraqi's actually have any aircraft?  How like a missile does a tornado look on a Patriot aiming system?

Oh well, these questions and more will be answered over the next few weeks and months.

Will

[Blade]

Yes they do, look here. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ipment.htm

[Smoke2much]

Thanks blade.  Do we know how much of that is operational?

Will