Iraq

[BFMF]

And I bet Hussein is elated that there are millions of people around the globe protesting for him!

[Tequila Sunrise]

Sadam probably does have these weapons but, has it occured to anyone that he might not? Or that if he feels threatened and does have them he will use them?

[BFMF]

Well, the UN inspectors found some banned missles that saddam claimed he didn't have. If he lied about not having those, i'm sure would like about other banned weapons.

[pete]

There's an old joke :

How do you know when a politician is lying?


....His lips are moving .....

[Brett_Henderson]

What needs to be done, will be done, no matter how much foot-stomping and whining goes on.  The best-case scenario would have Iraq stalling right up the onset of war, and then falling over itself surrendering,, making "goofy" George look like a genius and France and Germany saying, "Oops, just kidding,,we were with-ya all along"   .

Anyway...noone mentioned A-10's  ???   Have they been grounded when I wasn't looking ?

[Smoke2much]

Hear Hear Pete!

I am happy that this subject has been raised as it is vital to a democracy that free speech and free expression is allowed.  I have been impressed that the majority of the posts in this thread have been well thought out and it has had the feel of a debate or a free exchange of views and not a play ground (school yard) argument.  It proves that Ozzy and his colleagues must be doing a good job!

I think we should get back to the origional question.  What will be the Aircraft in operation if the war starts?

I too would like to know what has happened to the Warthogs, does anyone know?

Will

[Iroquois]

Very true Pete, free speech is a must for democracy but we must bare in mind what is appropriate to say. I'm sure you all heard the remarks made by Canadian MPs lately. Americans please keep in mind that these opinions do not reflect that of the vast majority of Canadians. Wanted to clear that up before CNN begins to pick us apart again.  ;)
Of course political talk does not break people apart as long as it remains civilized. I'm right wing but have left wing friends, of course I rarely ever talk about politics with them anyway. Just my two cents worth.

Back on topic, the US will use it's standard group of carrier based planes as well as stealth from ground bases in Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Britiain will deploy the standard Tornados and Harriers and Canada will use the CF-18 while covering for the Americans in the Afghani theater. There was actually a news article on where bases will be located and what planes will be used in the Toronto Sunday Sun a while back. They don't keep back issues on the Net but there might be similar articles in other papers, try the library. Also there's an excellent book our from the Smithsonian called "Flight, 100 Years of Aviation" by RG Grant. Has detailed info on many modern military aircraft including the F117 and the B2 Spirit. Definately worth borrowing.  8)    

[Zero_Bubble]

I suggest we stop politicking and address the original question. I expect the following scenario.
Prior to the commencement of the campaign (and it is happening now) there will be an increase of air operations in the no-fly zones mainly composed of F15s, F16s and Toronados. These aircraft will attack radar sites whether provoked or not to soften up air defense. AWACS operation will be much increased. The actual air  campaign will start with mass flights of cruise missiles, day and night, from ships or airborne targetting radar, missile and triple A sites. At night the stealth 117s and the B2s will do their thing followed by the 52s carrying the new 21K lb. bombs. Target will be troop concentrations and the disabling of all airfields. By this time air superiority has been achieved. The ground war will follow much later. There will be no rush to enter Bagdad or any large cities. Instead, the oil fields will be secured by airborne or commando raids. I forsee mass surrender and/or defection of regular Iraqi army even before the ground campaign starts. I also forsee active civilian discontent against Sadam once they know that the war is not going their way. I'm afraid that Sadam might pull a "Ceasar" as in when he burned Rome. Sadam is not going to commit suicide like Hitler did. He does not have the guts. I believe that a member of his family or one of his closest relatives is going to do him in when the opportunity comes. And just like Japan it will not take long for Iraq to get back on its feet and assume a better way of life.

Zero Bubble

[WebbPA]

I agree with Pete.  If you want to talk politics there are plenty of other forums available.

If you want to talk about theoretical wars get a copy of Tom Clancy's AirCav and win Vietnam in 2 weeks (maybe 4, it's been a while since I read it.)

[Professor Brensec]

Thanks for dropping in Pete. Good for  morale.........lol.

I think the debate has been handled by all as a debate and there has been no sign of any childish, mean or undesirable posting. I think Congrats to the participants!  ;D

As Brett. H. said effectively, what wil be, will be. There's nought that any of us can do about it, individually or collectively.

My heart pains for two reasons:

1. I truely believe that the Iraqi people are being forced to live in a sub-standard way (losing their lives an many cases) because of one terrible man's meglomania. I don't think that these people are all uneducated enough in their own faith not to know that what he is doing is very wrong. There is absolutely nothing in the Coran about violence, superiority over other faiths or warring and killing of anybody over anything.

2. I am sad, and not a little surprised that so many people cannot see the signs and the eventual result of something that has all happened before. The only difference is that there are more Isolationist countries than those willing to recognise evil for what it is and realise that there is only one way to defeat it, no matter how unfortunate or distasteful that may be.  ;D

[Zero_Bubble]

Iraq must be a great country. From what I can see on TV everyone seemed to be fanatically agreeable with what their president wants and does Everyone said they love their president  and I have not seen any dissenters. I even saw many kiss his hand and embraced him wherever he went. They all demonstrated in his support vowing they are willing to die for him. Now that's true patriotism and loyalty. Unlike here in the United States whereby we sometimes call our politicians, including our president , bunch of jerks. Whereby we go out in mass and demonstrate if we disagree with  what our government is doing. Whereby people in the streets bad mouth our leaders for their misdeeds. Whereby our editorials criticize our government officials and our comedians cut down our leaders with their corny jokes. Is'nt the United States a terrible country? But I think I'd rather stay here and  earn my freedom.

Zero Bubble

[Tequila Sunrise]

try that in Iraq and you'll have an unfortunate encounter with a Kalashnikov

[Professor Brensec]

That's the biggest problem with this whole issue (and others).
The media is controlled so tightly and the press are so threatened and continually under scrutiny that the only things the "free" nations see is what Hussein wants them to.
I have seen interviews from former Iraqi soldiers, citizens and politicians, both male and female, that have escaped one kind of punishment or another, and they all sing the same tune.
"Life is terrible for the average family, there are shortages of almost everything and the systems and institutions are at breaking point. Everyone knows Hussein is responsible and blames him (silently). "

I will go so far as to make a prediction.

If the Coalition forces do attack and are not hindered in entering Iraq to physically oust Hussein, the people, by and large, will welcome them as liberators. Not out of fear or two-facedness but out of true releif.  ;D

[Romulus111VADT]

Bet I get a swift kick in the butt for this.

Saddam Hussein must feel like a real sex symbol. After all, he has all of Iraq kissing his armpits. He has several countries, their politicians, millions of protestors and A list Hollywood Celebrities all lined up to kiss his butt. All eagerly awaiting to see what new crap he comes up with. Sorry for the pun...not done intentionally.

[WebbPA]

Will we be using F-15's?  I'd really like to dust off my old Jane's F-15, which wasn't released until long after Gulf War Part 1 was over.

And if Mr. Bush uses, as he calls them, "nucular" weapons I still have the Silver Bullet addon.