African...

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African...

Postby H » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:33 am

Stomp
This is a sad event... however, if you're not hunting to save the starving then you deserve to expect the fatal more than some fool scaling the icy cliffs for the thrill of it. You are out to kill it... so it took you out first; I'm very sorry for the family's loss but I'd do the same as the elephant -- in my case, our both being human would not even be in my consideration.
Nevertheless, the next time you see a gun-toting, trigger-fingered elephant... by all means, shoot it before it shoots you!



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Re: African...

Postby Fozzer » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:27 am

African Elephant = 1

Trophy Hunter Tourist = 0

Don't mess with Tuskers!... ;) ...!

....they will remember you from your last visit!... :o ...!

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Re: African...

Postby Hagar » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:17 pm

One up to the elephants. :clap:
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Re: African...

Postby SG-19 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:23 pm

Is it surprising that Elephants are becoming more aggressive, they have long memories and can communicate with each other just as well as we can communicate. I suppose that when hunters enter an area word gets around. :think:
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Re: African...

Postby Anthindelahunt » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Way to go Elephants. :dance:

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Re: African...

Postby Hawkeye07 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:38 pm

“I do think that elephants are becoming more aggressive towards humans in very compressed areas where they are being shot at and harassed,” said Caitlin O’Connell-Rodwell, a biologist at Stanford University. No kidding? I hope it didn't take a degree in Biology for Caitlin to realize this. :think: I'd be aggressive too if I was being shot at and harassed.
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Re: African...

Postby Shadowcaster » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:00 pm

Serves them right !!!


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Re: African...

Postby Anthindelahunt » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:26 am

Humans need to get it through their thick
skulls,that other life forms have a right to
their natural existence.It is their world too.

What do we expect,when we kill each other
at the drop of a hat.

If we respect the fact that they are all our
cousins on Spaceship Earth, then we can hold
our heads up.

Anthin...











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Re: African...

Postby H » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:59 am

Some welcomed responses. However, our human ignorance can be manifest in so many ways. Some years ago, I posted about a statement in our local paper's classifieds. If it was a youth doing so, someone needed to relieve him/her of the ignorance: "Please stop hunting wild animals. Get your meat at the supermarket where no animals get killed!"

Of course, the lobsters and clams at the supermarket began acting as animalistic as they could as soon as they knew that. It is true that most of the meat is not from animals killed at the supermarket -- but please inform this person of the slaughterhouse. As I once told a home state lecturer and writer, we have to eat to live and something has to die for us to eat, whether plant or animal.

Ours was a small New England farm; the steer became like pets -- they had names... I missed them... but they became food on the table.
So many of us don't comprehend -- or are apathetic to -- the source of the products we buy.



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Re: African...

Postby pete » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:51 am

I think anyone who would want to hunt and kill an elephant is psychopathic. Per-i-od! Incapable of thinking beyond their nose.
Now let's just hope this animal is left in peace.
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Re: African...

Postby Sprocket » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:36 pm

An African take on this issue. From an African.

This whole issue is a very complex and complicated problem to solve. The system of "game-farms" that are in place is not perfect, but is the best one yet.

Believe it or not, but the biggest threat to wildlife in Africa are actually the "local" people.

You try and convince the local farmer and community of the virtues of Elephants, Hippos, Buffalo etc, after a whole years crop has been destroyed the night before, with all the fences flattened.
Immediate reaction here is to search out the offending herds, hunt them down and kill them.
Also, shop the animal's where-about's to the poachers, and at least get a back-hand out of it.

The ONLY "workable"solution to this problem is for the local people and communities to ALSO benefit, and benefit well, from these free roaming animals.
This is by and large achieved with the system of "game-farms" and "game reserves".

Game farms allow "trophy" hunting, on a balanced and sustainable quota system, normally set by local government.
It is not cheap. A permit for one bull elephant can easily be around £50,000.00.

In African terms that is a lot of money. There is, for instance, a new school for the community, right there.
With the incomes generated by these game farms, the animals have become "ours", and a benefit to all.
Without this sense of ownership, it will all be a lost cause.

(Smaller game. like buck, are much cheaper. Yet most hunters do NOT take all of the meat with them, which is then distributed amongst the locals.)
Then also the other stuff like employment, direct and indirect, like farm staff and workers, vets etc.
Perfect system? Not by a long shot, but better than no system at all.

So does it put food on the plate? Yes it does.
Does a hunter just nilly-willy walk into the veld and shoot himself an elephant? Absolutely not.

So yes. I for one will not be taking any glee in the death of a paying customer.

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Re: African...

Postby Hawkeye07 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:12 pm

Jan I see your point of view and can understand the "locals" frustration with wild animals destroying their crops which after all is the local inhabitants food source.
But here's another question about the whole situation... If the animals are destroying the crops why isn't the government using the money from the trophy hunters
to build stronger fences? The way I see it is once the crop has been destroyed then killing the whole herd isn't going to bring it back and the folks can't live on elephant meat alone, at least not a balanced diet anyway. And which elephants should they shoot to prevent next years crop from being trampled? I can see, as you explained, there are many facets to the problem.
I still don't like the idea of "Trophy Hunters" though. Even the local gent I know and actually like rubs me the wrong way when he starts talking about his "Trophy Adventures". Their one and only reason for initiating the hunt is to bag a trophy they can photograph and go home to brag about. (Or cut of its head to hang on their wall.)

I would imagine the biggest problem is poachers who just kill the elephants for the tusks and leave the carcass to rot.
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Re: African...

Postby H » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:37 pm

I also comprehend the outlook of 'the locals'. Once upon a time in the American west, sheep herders were ostracized, killed and driven away because sheep left nothing for cattle to graze. Deer are still trespassing corn thieves and rabbits, among other smaller varmints, still invade the gardens. I shot a porcupine through the head for climbing into one of our only two Golden Delicious apple trees -- he had his choice of a couple dozen already on the ground! -- but never took his paw in to collect the bounty. Still, the main concern here is a difference in 'attitude and reason' between a trophy hunter and someone 'defending their crops'. Even in defending the crops, isn't it a bit much to approach annihilation of the species? A prominent politician once stated that we "need war" to keep our population in check -- and he was related to the people targeted in the infamous Nazi-enacted "Holocaust". Now, what species threatens world overpopulaion?

Concerning the elephants, Foz can up the score:
Theunis Botha, of South Africa, pioneered a business with European-style “Monteira hunts,” luring the wealthy to shoot our more wondrous, often endangered creatures who'd never even see it coming. In May, 2017, the 51-year-old was leading a tour group on a hunt in Gwai, Zimbabwe, and stumbled upon a group of breeding [mother] elephants at a game reserve near Hwange National Park. The startled elephants were not scared off by pistol fire from some of the hunters -- the elephants continued their charge. Mr. Botha was grasped by an elephant's trunk and body slammed. As this elephant received multiple shots from the other hunters, she eventually fell to the ground and succumbed to death... but she'd fallen on Theunis Botha, crushing him and taking him with her.



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Re: African...

Postby Hawkeye07 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:13 pm

DANG!!! A Kamikaze Elephant. The most dangerous kind. :o
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Re: African...

Postby napamule » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:27 pm

'Kamakazi Elephant'. What was he smoking? Wait...Elephants don't smoke! Why? Because they can't put their 'butts' in the ashtray! :lol:
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