using the gps to land ??

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using the gps to land ??

Postby bombardier » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:46 pm

hello there: you see what I'm thinking of, I hope you understand this, if not I will try to explain this more. I'm still unclear as for myself as how I word it; I know what I'm thinking of but putting it in words, give me a chance. out of 3 examples someone should be able to pick one example and understand it; I hope anyway, well thats the plan.

example1: as I sit on the E W runway doing my preflight take off: i see the gps. now at 260. if I take off circle around the airport approach straight in using the 260 can I do that? ok for example I'm about 100 miles south of the runway and I know that the runway is 260 degrees (w). can I just turn into the 260 heading and it should line me up with the runway.

example 2: it seems like to me if a runway is lined up on the gps as 260 (w) and I'm at 100 miles south heading west and then turn north and then turn for final approach and watching the gps to get to 260 degrees then level off and it should land me at the runway.

another example: ok the runway is 260 degrees so at any direction i'm flying I should be able to turn the plane to the 260 degrees mark on the gps and it should take me to the runway even if I'm 100 miles out or even as close to 50 miles to th runway.

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby pegger » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:35 pm

I think I get what you are trying to say, and in most cases, what you are describing isn't going to work. The gps is not your primary heading device. Main reason for that is that a gps will show you true heading, not magnetic heading.

How you should plan to use the gps is to navigate to certain fixes or intersections. How current your rnav data is in your fsx will dictate on how succsessful your gps navigation will be.

You can use the gps to guide your approach with auto pilot, but its a little more involved than just getting the right heading. Look up how to use the gps in fsx for approaches on the internet. I think a detailed explaination is a little too much to offer here.

And if you like to just use the moving map in the gps to just help you get lined up, well thats an acceptable way to find your way, roughly, but certainly not in a way that is suitable for any precision approach.

Good luck
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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby Gunslinger619 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:32 pm

If you enter the airport identifier using the direct to button (the one with a capital D with an arrow through it) on the GPS, it will take you back to the airport regardless of what the outbound runway heading was on take off. I use the zoom button to line up with the runway that I have chosen to land on about 35 miles out if I am flying a large airliner such as an B757. Hope this helps! :music-rockon:
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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby PhantomTweak » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:25 pm

Weeellllllll.....yes and no guys. if an airport is in the GPS, and has an ILS(I THINK), generally it also has an approach, missed approach, vector to hold, and vector to final choices available. I think. Anyway, I know it has approach and vector to final choices available, I just can't recall all of the choices...mind like a steel sieve! :oops: :lol:

I've never tried a flight all the way to the ground on the GPS but I believe it can be done, depending of course on the sophistication of the GPS and AP. I am pretty sure the FA-18E/F/G models can do it, altho not onto a carrier deck. In fact most modern carrier capable aircraft can fly almost to touchdown on the boat's ILS if it's properly put together, and I am CERTAIN they can fly right to the rounddown on ILS/ACLS in the real world. Assuming it's functional of course. They seem to take the worst possible times to fail... :lol:
I haven't the faintest idea about commercials tho. I never fly those. Some of the more sophisticated GA aircraft can too, I'm pretty sure.

Lotta babbling, hope it helps a little...

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby bombardier » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:37 am

hello to all : thanks for the response;

its something for fuel for thought matter of speaking. right now I'm flying 777 and air bus 350. the 350 is a united and began at tokoyo and now on the runway at italy. I got a few miles to heathrow in london, and from there to phil international.

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby FoMoCo63 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:29 pm

It would be possible to navigate that way, and VFR would be the Rule here.
You would have to fly a heading different from which a dead head to the field would be. Watching your GPS with the field programed in and a red line visible you would fly a heading until the red line on the GPS intersected with the 260/80 hd. on the compass on the GPS, and the 260/80 hd. depending which rwy you wanted to come in on. Then dead head to the field at a 260/80 hd. using the GPS as a reference.

When the field comes into view you should be close enough to the rwy hd. to visually see it, and with a few minor course corrections to line up and land.

Yes it is very possible to navigate this way, not the most accurate means of navigation by being the most precise method available to a pilot, but is a definite means to get you there. I have been know to navigate like this from time to time in props. Jetliners to me would require a bit more training, and a more precise method of navigation to get the field and land, IFR (radio navigation)

Bottom line what gets you from point A to point B that your comfortable with, works :)
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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby ViperPilot » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:39 pm

bombardier,

I think I understand what you're asking, and everyone who replied gave some very good answers, and hope mine help as well.

as FoMoCo said, the magenta line will get you to the Airport, but you might have to adjust your Heading in order to line up with the proper Runway.

Bear in mind that, if possible, you always want to pick the Runway that's facing into the wind , regardless of the direction you're coming in from.

I don't know if you have looked at them yet, but have a peek at a STAR or SID; these are the charts that determine the procedure for landing on a given Runway.

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Here's a good Primer...

http://www.stpaulairlines.com/spa-train ... 6-aoif.pdf
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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby bombardier » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:37 pm

thanks for that link and yes they did gave some good answers. well let me get my A 380 out of libya before the president of libya finds out.

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby Fozzer » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:41 pm

...and don't forget to dial up ATIS* on your radio, when approaching the Airfield...

That will give you all the airfield active runway, and weather, etc, information you will require, prior to landing....Everything you need to know...

Make the notes on your knee-board so that you don't forget!

VERY IMPORTANT!

Paul.... :mrgreen: ...!

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_ ... on_Service
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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby bombardier » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:09 am

hello to all and thanks for all the information:

I have not tried your ideas yet but it seems like if I'm at the runway and look at my mag compass and it says 017 and take off southbond for 50 miles and turn around and line up with 017 it should take me to the runway I took off from not, over top of the bay 10 miles out. that 017 shoud be an imaginary line all the way to infinity because if I'm 100 miles and would like to line up with the runway I can choose my heading 017 and fly all the to the runway. I believe 017 is north northwest on the compass. I could be wrong there.


so if I'm turning in midair from the southwest my way of thinking is keep on turning until it lines up the 017 and it will bring me straight to the runway. thats the theory anyway. but thats not the case. unless I'm missing something here.

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby PhantomTweak » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:35 pm

The only way, if I understand what you're asking, for your method to work is to time legs and turns to ensure your position relative to the airport is correct.
I don't think you quite realize the limitations of navigating by compass alone, whether a whiskey compass or from the GPS. Yes, the line along 017° extends to infinty. BUT: there are also any number of parallel 017° lines in the world.
For example: sitting on the runway, you are pointed at 017°. Now, take off, and fly due South (180°) for 60 seconds. Now turn to 017°. According to your theory, you should be lined back up on the runway, am I correct? Pause the sim, and open the map. Look at your position thereon. Yes, you are pointed at 017°, but the runway is nowhere NEAR your 017° heading line, is it? Nope. Your heading line may be parallel to the runway, but not along the runway.
You need to make sure you time the length of the leg you make along the runway heading before you turn to, let's say, 107°. this is 90° from the runway. Now, make sure the turn you make to 107° is at a constat rate of turn. Lets say a standard 2 min turn. That means it takes 2 min to turn a full 360°, and most turn-and-bank indicators (the "ball) have a standard rate turn marking of some sort, whether degree of bank, or bank required for a standard rate turn (the needle atop the "ball" area), as do Artificial Horizions (those little marks either side of 0 on the top of the AH). Then time this leg. Make sure that at exactly 1 minute (60 seconds), you make another standard rate turn to 197°, or the reverse of the runway heading. Now fly exactly the same amount of time you flew along the runway heading during takeoff prior to you first turn, plus 30 seconds. Now make another turn to 287°, again, for one min. Again, a 90°, standard rate turn. Finally, one last standard turn to 017°, and bingo! you are on final to the runway, 30 seconds out! This is a fairly standard excersize that instructors will drill students in over and over again.
NOW: look at the map again, follow your course (the long red line behind the aircraft symbol). You will see why, at any point along your flight, simply turning to 017° will NOT line you up on the runway.
Knowing where you are in the world, relative to where you came from, want to go, other traffic, etc, is called Situational Awareness, or having a "clue" as the military pilots say. You absolutely must maintain this awareness, in all 4 dimensions (that includes Time as one dimension, for you are always so many minutes, seconds, hours etc to or from all the points mentioned above) at all times. This is critical not only to being a good pilot, but a remaining LIVING pilot! THAT is why they stress it so hard in flight school.

I know that was long and kinda involved but it's a vital part of flying! When you fly a normal pattern around an airport, this is exactly what you are doing. All the fancy navigational instruments in the world are merely there to help YOU maintain your situational awareness better. I hope it helped you out a little bit...

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby bombardier » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:26 pm

hello phatom tweek:

a very good explanation you have. now let me put that in good use and I will let you know sometime this week.

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby Fozzer » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:55 pm

...and don't forget, wherever you think that you want to go, on your compass reading/heading, the prevailing wind will take you in whatever direction it wishes to modify your flight plan!..... :shock: .....

Always take account of wind speed and direction affecting your flight, and regularly correct it as you fly!.... ;) ....!

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby PhantomTweak » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:44 pm

I was trying to keep things as simple as possible, there Paul :lol: Nice thing about the Sim, is that one can do that no wind trick. Yep, winds are part and parcel of the real world, but for simplicity's sake I left them out. I know simplicity doesn't appear to be part and parcel of my stuff, buuuttt..... :lol:

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Re: using the gps to land ??

Postby Fozzer » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:22 am

PhantomTweak wrote:I was trying to keep things as simple as possible, there Paul :lol: Nice thing about the Sim, is that one can do that no wind trick. Yep, winds are part and parcel of the real world, but for simplicity's sake I left them out. I know simplicity doesn't appear to be part and parcel of my stuff, buuuttt..... :lol:

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