The Shuttle was a MISTAKE?

[Hagar]

Hi beefy. I respect your opinions as I hope you respect mine. I didn't wish to get into a lengthy discussion on this as I stated early on in this thread. Somehow it's turned into that although we've already discussed this at some length in a different part of the forum.

My good friend Richie who has a great knowledge of the space program & dreamed of becoming a space pilot from an early age took part in this discussion. We have entirely opposite views but I respect him & his knowledge of the subject. He would be the one I would go to if I wanted information on anything to do with space.

All I wanted to point out here is that not everyone is so convinced of the reasons behind all this as you are. I can't find the site now but during our earlier discussion I quoted from recently released tapes from the JFK library that he had no interest in space whatsoever. This was a purely political decision. There is also a sound clip where you can actually hear what he said so he has not been misquoted. The whole reason for going to the Moon, which was a very important reason to the Western world at the time, was to beat the Russians to it. The stated goal was to send a man to the Moon by the end of the decade & bring him back safely. The object of the exercise was achieved after his assassination so he didn't live to see it. Whatever happened since then has a very doubtful motive in my eyes.

One of the points I brought up in our earlier discussion was that even if a settlement on another planet were to be achieved, who would be chosen as the few lucky ones to go, leaving all the others behind to their fate? I can't see them being too happy about that & once the Earth is destroyed the settlers, explorers or whatever you like to call them would be on their own with no chance of any help if anything went wrong. I think I would rather stay here & take my chances.

[Woodlouse2002]

One millenium is nothing for evolution. Yet mankind has on average got about a foot taller. Have you ever been into a 16th century building? Your head is hitting the ceiling that would have given ample headroom 500 years ago. And then again, consider how much man has evolved in the last 100,000 years. From not much more than a monkey to what we are now. Who's to say what we will turn into in the next 100,000.

In your post you were implying that when the sun goes out we're gonna have to find somewhere else to live. In mine I was saying don't be silly. Maybe humanity won't change it's ways. But humanity itself will change. It will adapt to a changing planet as it has done so for thousands of years and when the sun finally goes out that will be it. Not only for earth, but for the rest of this solar system. And if you consider how many millions of miles away the nearest star is, we're gonna have to go a bloody long way to find another home.


Edit: Changed word "Stupid" to "Silly". (Diplomacy. )

[ThatOnePerson]

I think that it is just human nature to want to understand the world around him or her,space is always changing and most likely will never stop changing,which is why we will always be learning more and more about that big vast area called space.......

[jordonj]

Well, the problem as I see it with space xploration is mostly that our bodies aren't designed to function outside of our environment of Earth.

We have yet to build a spacestation that doesn't fall apart after a time (Mir is gone...) and then there's the question of supply.

In the end, we would need a spaceship that could emulate the environment of Earth, be self-sufficient, and we would have generations of crew piloting it.

Other planets do exist (several have been discovered), but remember that they are either close to a star, or are gas giants (like Jupiter).  Neither type is a great canidate for life (but anything's possible).

Then there's the point of location.  We actually live in an isolated suburb of the universe (where matter is not so densly packed), and finding a suitable planet...well, let's just say the odds are against it.

Now I don't mean to be a killjoy, but we do have more immediate problems rather than to shoot our citizens into space...

[Hagar]

As far as we know, the Earth is unique in our solar system as it supports life "as we know it". No apologies for misquoting Star Trek. It's possible that Mars was more like Earth once but it has since died, for whatever reason & a very long time ago. It always seemed more sensible to me to preserve the planet we live on & have evolved along with for as long as we can, rather than embark on some highly ambitious & somewhat dubious scheme to revive a dead one millions of miles away that is completely alien to us.

[Katahu]

I think it's time for me to say this right now.

One day, when aliens start to desend onto our planet in a spaceship capable of faster-than-light travel, we will soon realize that all of us humans will one day have a wake-up call to reality.

[beefhole]

In your post you were implying that when the sun goes out we're gonna have to find somewhere else to live.

Woody, once more-that is not, at all, what I was saying.  I'm in school right now.  I write a lot of essays.  In essays, you throw in background meaningless sentences to juice it up.  It's like second nature.  That's why I mentioned the sun. I have no idea if the human race will even exist in 8 billion years (why do I doubtit ).  Perhaps I misworded it.  

Hope that clears it up

[Woodlouse2002]

Right oh.

[Flt.Lt.Andrew]

[glb]DUDES!

ITS A BUS THING THAT GOES UP INTO SPACE

WOOP DE DOO!

LETS LEAVE IT ALONE!

SOME RECKON ITS COOL, SOME DONT, LETS NOT TRY AND CONVINCE EACH OTHER TO THE OTHERWISE![/glb]


*cues that song "Movin' On" *


A.

[H]

One Chinese figure dreamed of going to the moon by using rockets that the Chinese had invented. It was believed that he succeeded by strapping a lot of rockets on a chair and lifted off. He was never seen again - I think. I keep forgetting on whether he returned or not. Did he?

He was never seen again but for the bits and pieces that were left of him. At the time they thought that the moon was only about 50 miles away and, according to the version I read, those rockets strapped to his throne never got him even close to that. Of course, I'm not so sure they could account for every little bitty piece of him.

[RichieB16]

My good friend Richie who has a great knowledge of the space program & dreamed of becoming a space pilot from an early age took part in this discussion. We have entirely opposite views but I respect him & his knowledge of the subject. He would be the one I would go to if I wanted information on anything to do with space.

Ah, I touched.

[H]

Amongst the various things discussed in our Space Science class (and, again, in an Air Force training course) was the aspect of technological advancement. We knew that comparatively few lives may be lost in space (or ocean) research compared to the other prime basis for the same: war. To add in the destructive nature... ...but what can be beneficially applied in other areas is of more concern. So, maybe it would better serve if we could start up a list of such?
Modification: Richie posted his commentary while I was working on this bit. He's touched on the same topic; I also agree with him on the Moon/Mars issue.

[JBaymore]

Of course the space program (of most any country) has some what might be called "sinister  intents"....... to think otherwise would be kinda' naive.  For millennia humans have sought to hold the "high ground" for military advantage.

Basically almost any governmentally funded major scientific program will only get significant funding if there is a possibility of a "payback" in a military application.  Human government seems to only give lip service to stuff that is truly humanitarian, selfless, or altruistic.  We spend gazillions on military stuff... and only millions on stuff like AIDS.

If one of the "prices" (along with cash) that it takes to provide the NON military benefits that an active space program provides to the populace is that some guys with hawks perched on their shoulders get their nice new military toys..... well... unfortunately that is what it takes.  

I don't LIKE it either... but it is simply reality.

Because if the military aspect was not there..... the whole pile of research would simply NOT get funded at all.  The money would go to another project that DID have military possibilities... not to pure research, to medicine, to bettering the human condition, and so on.

The idea that funding space travel is not OK because of the potential militay/political applications but exploring the oceans is OK is, I think, not quite based on the reality.  Because there is just about as as much military / political potential in governmentally funded undersea research as there is in the space program.  The sea is now full of military hardware too.

......who would be chosen as the few lucky ones to go, leaving all the others behind to their fate?

Well.... in this particular scenario... who cares?  At least SOME survivors of the human race might have a chance.  Hard decisions..... and no matter WHO you pick... you are wrong...and a lot of people get left behind.  Will it likely be the "well connected"?  Of course.  At least it will be someone.

.......once the Earth is destroyed the settlers, explorers or whatever you like to call them would be on their own with no chance of any help if anything went wrong. I think I would rather stay here & take my chances.

In those off-planet people's case it would be if anything went wrong.  In the case of the people still on Earth... it IS going to go wrong.  At least they'd have SOME chance of survival.

We are screwing up this planet so fast that likely no one still on planet will survive the mess we're making.  Personally I am not sure that this is fixable now given the current world situation.  I think the 1000 year scenario is WAY generous.  I am guessing we have at most 200 years.  It might be only 100.

The real issue that no one talks about anymore is there are simply too many people for this rock to support.  The heck with CO2 production issues.... global warming, or oil depletion.... those are actually symptoms of the real "disease".  If we don't do something about population control ........ we're doomed.

Maybe.... and it is only a maybe.... if we manage to get off-planet and established elsewhere..... with the perspective of "looking back" at ourselves we will suddenly realize how we got outrselves into the mess... and not repeat it.


best,

................john

[Fly2e]

If we don't do something about population control ........ we're doomed.

I think we are all doomed then!  ;)

[JBaymore]

[quote]I think we are all doomed then!