Drive by Shooter kit.

[Hagar]

Still doesn't change my opinion on personal firearms or the need for them.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and that we all respect, being shown by a firearm thread still being open after four pages, must be a SimV record (you are still wrong.......a very disparate attempt at having the last word ).

I told you I was wasting my time.

It would seem that we are all clear on one point though, regardless of what we think about the original question. Criminals have too many rights and the victims have bugger all.

On that point I would have to agree.

[Brett_Henderson]

I'll try a "last word" ..lol  

Whether or not to own weapons, and to think of them as security (I do)(and I also know that changing someone's mind about it, either way, is a waste of time), is a personal choice.

The only observation I'd make, is that under some European law, it is NOT a personal choice. The choice has been made for you.

I'd not advocate or promote personal firearm ownership, other than be an advocate of not outlawing it. I'd never suggest or advise a person arm themself, any more than I'd abide a person advising me not to.

[H]

I started this in Notepad some while ago and a number of entries have been added since. I don't mean to overwhelm Hagar under a pile of stones, especially since his outlook is from an island which was already a much different environment than was this one at its conception. I'm also not entirely contrary to D.A.'s outlook but there's too much to reedit, thus this prequel.

I can't help thinking that the average American is paranoid about being attacked in his own home by armed intruders intent on committing all sorts of unspeakable atrocities.

At least for the past century most Americans have only had the more common weapons: knives, forks, rocks, feet, fingers... the occasional 10 pound tree limb. Assailants usually have these and more. Of the two (.22 cal.) rifles I've owned, one has passed on to older relatives and the other was absconded in lieu of a cash payment. I'm not against gun ownership, only certain (mis)uses which cannot be entirely avoided because a biological computer can be flawed or ail just as can any other biological organ; that is the [dis]order of things.

It strikes me that an intruder with more than one brain cell will not give advance notice of his intentions & will strike without warning at the most inconvenient time for his intended victim.

Please tell us when it would be less inconvenient ...

In this case, relying on firearms for defence won't be much use unless you carry a permanently loaded gun about your person at all times, even when you're in the shower or asleep on the sofa in front of the TV. It's even possible that your own firearm could be used against you.

These things have all happened -- the intruders weapon has even been used against them -- and there's no gaurantee that the outcome would be any different otherwise.

I won't pretend to like the idea of personal firearms but what you do in your own country is none of my business. I've never owned a firearm of any description & never felt the need for one.

Again, when I've carried a firearm, never with the specific intent of shooting anyone, defensively or elsewise, even in the military; I told the U.S. Air Force that I wouldn't shoot someone just because I was ordered to [but could if it was necessary]. I've also walked where I've seen cougars, also knowing that bears traverse our area, and have never been attacked. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will; I may not survive an attack even with an already loaded gun; loading a gun when attacked, I may not survive unscathed but survive I might; I'm just taking my chances, by the grace of God, with only a miniature jacknife that's not even at the ready.

I've managed to live for over 65 years without my home being broken into, never been threatened in any way by anyone & don't know anyone who has.

Yes, you do... how well, is another matter.

If I had then perhaps I would feel differently.

A long while ago I saw a show where a husband refused to touch his wife in any way after she was raped. I couldn't understand such a proposed reaction when she would have so desperately needed consolation. It wasn't until my home was vandalized (another soon after), my car (found abandoned and retrieved in dire need of repair -- which, by the way, invalidated the theft coverage), gemstone collection, cameras, recording equipment and other items were stolen, that I gained some comprehension. It is not only that some fantasy of 'sanctity' has been violated: you have failed to protect, even honor, that which was in your charge... and it can happen again -- to you, amongst the millions who may never experience such.

8-)

[RichieB16]

I can't help thinking that the average American is paranoid about being attacked in his own home by armed intruders intent on committing all sorts of unspeakable atrocities.

I agree with this, and I'm not sure why it's true.  In post parts of the country, crime isn't that common.  Plus, when it happens, the criminal typically doesn't break in when someone is home.  If I was a criminal (which I'm not), I would think the most likely time for someone to be home would be the middle of the night so I would avoid that time.

For me, I have guns because I enjoy target shooting.  It is a hobby of mine that I have had since I was young and something my father (and several friends) share with me.  I like to go out in the woods and set up targets and shoot them...for those of you who haven't done it, I would recommend it if you get the chance sometime...its a lot of fun.  You just have to be safe.

In my opinion, they are nice to have "in the event" someone ever breaks in...but thats not something I'm too worried about.  If it happens, they are there.  As I have already said, all mine are locked up and unloaded.

I do agree that some American's are paranoid about crime though and feel the need to protect themselves more than seems rational.  A great example of this is my best friend who has a Concealed Carry License.  He literally carries a gun everywhere.  If you see him in town, 95% he has a gun on him.  We live in a medium size city (the city and its surrounding area probably has 250,000 people) and although crime is here, it's by no means a serious problem or something worth worrying about.  I have lived here for 23 years and never had a problem.  Yet, he carries.  Its not something I think is necessary, but it's his right.

[Brett_Henderson]

Its not something I think is necessary, but it's his right.

That's really what the debate boils down to. The right to choose for yourself.

I've had a concealed carry permit for years now. I'm not one to always strap on a side-arm, every time I leave the house... but I do like having that option... and it has saved my behind, twice.

Where I live, crime is actually non-existent. I don't worry about one of the 500 residents of peaceful Trout Lake, MI as posing any threat

[PsychoDiablo]

Nice to see civilized a gun thread that does not turn into an emotional flame war.

btw RichieB16 Is that a Mitchels Mauser? If not how did you get your stock so cleaned up?

[RichieB16]

btw RichieB16 Is that a Mitchels Mauser? If not how did you get your stock so cleaned up?

Yes, it is a Mitchell's.  Its one of their "Collector's Grade" rifles.

The Mitchell's guns are very nice and good shooters, but they are totally refinished and therefore have minimal collector value.  They also have the bolt's chromed.  They look very nice and shoot well.  If you want a nice shooting Mauser that's been gone through...thats what I'd get.  But, like I said, refinished so no real collector value (I'm on a "surplus military rifle" forum and they all hate them because they aren't original).  They are also a bit overpriced, but a very nice rifle.  

I believe they sand the stock's way down and refinish them to get the lighter color.

Here's another photo, the long rifle second from the bottom is the Mitchell's Mauser (the rifle right above it is my other Mauser which has been sporterized and converted to 30.06).  This is my whole gun collection (arsenal) minus one gun.

[Brett_Henderson]

A fine set of weapons  :)  With a standard issue 10/22 and its big brother in .223  8-)

What caliber is the bull-barreled rifle ? (I'm guessing .243)

[BFMF]

That's a nice collection of weapons...

[RichieB16]

What caliber is the bull-barreled rifle ? (I'm guessing .243)

The rifle with the bull barrel is a Savage .17HMR bolt action rifle.  

From top to bottom:
Mossberg 20-Gauge Model 500 (Youth) Pump Shotgun
Ruger 10/.22
EMF Model 1892 Lever Action .357Mag/.38 Special (repro of a Winchester M1892)
Savage .17HMR Bolt Action (Model 93R17)
Browning Citori Lightning 12-Gauge Shotgun with 28" Barrel (Over/Under)
Ruger Mini-14 - pictured with 20-round mag attached (.223)
Mauser 98k Sporterized 30.06 (1938 built)
Mauser 98k 8mm (Mitchell's Mauser, 1938 built)
Springfield Armory M1 Garand 30.06 (1945)

Pistols (left to right)
Dan Wesson Pointman .45ACP (M1911 Government)
Ruger MkII .22, NRA Special Edition
Single Action Army Colt Model 1860 Reproduction, black powder .44 (built by Traditions)

Not pictured above is my Colt M1911 Commander Gold Cup .45 two-toned (I didn't have it when the photo was taken).  This pistol was a special version with a limited production of 300.  What makes it so unique is it has the special target tuning of the Gold Cup but has the standard non-adjustible blade sights (which is very rare).  Here is a pic of it:


If you don't know, the big difference between the Colt M1911 Government and the Colt M1911 Commander is the barrel length.  They are both .45 and the magazines are interchangeable.  The Government model has a 5" barrel while the Commander model has a 4.25" barrel.

[PsychoDiablo]

Real nice set you got there, i have 3 rc mausers that are covered in flaking red shellack and i am thinking i might strip 2 of them and bring them back to original condition. Hope they turn out half as nice as the stock you got there.

[BFMF]

Are there any good online firearm dealers that sell surplus rifles, or did you simply shop around your local gun shops?

I've got a couple Remington 700 rifles, in 7mm, and .243 calibers. Out of curiosity, how much more of a recoil would a German K98 8mm Mauser have compared to a 7mm rifle. I've never fired an 8mm cartridge. Is the price of 8mm ammo usually run the same, higher, or lower than other hunting rifle caliber ammo?

[PsychoDiablo]

Are there any good online firearm dealers that sell surplus rifles, or did you simply shop around your local gun shops?

I've got a couple Remington 700 rifles, in 7mm, and .243 calibers. Out of curiosity, how much more of a recoil would a German K98 8mm Mauser have compared to a 7mm rifle. I've never fired an 8mm cartridge. Is the price of 8mm ammo usually run the same, higher, or lower than other hunting rifle caliber ammo?

Try both, but you can probably get better deals off the internet. try Aim Surplus, J&G Sales, Gunbroker, and Samco.

As for recoil... All i can say is it kicks alot less than my m44

[Fozzer]

Blimey.... ...

...this thread is getting REALLY scary now!... ... ... ...!

I think I will cancel my proposed trip to San Francisco, and spend my fortnight's Holiday in peaceful Afghanistan instead... ...!

Paul....With my Trusty Pea-Shooter... 8-)...!

[expat]

Blimey.... ...

...this thread is getting REALLY scary now!... ... ... ...!

I think I will cancel my proposed trip to San Francisco, and spend my fortnight's Holiday in peaceful Afghanistan instead... ...!

Paul....With my Trusty Pea-Shooter... 8-)...!

Looks like a European holiday is also out then Fozzer , we have you on both sides, maybe here would be safer;

National Park

Matt




One air rifle, three CO2 and a black powder kit yet to be started