Flight diverted to KBGR.

[Craig.]

Being out of this for a while i want to just go through some bullet points from what i can make out.
. Money is an excuse for the system we have now
. Politicians are the problem behind it.
. Its ok to use fear to win an election.

Ok to be fair the last two could have this locked at any time so we will leave those alone. As for money being a problem. Well there are many idiots at the TSA who do nothing all day and get paid a huge load of money, they might send themselves through X-ray machines like the guy in Denver, or the guys at memphis who stand around at the checkpoint with long lines but doing nothing. How about they cut back unnessicary people in these areas and focus that money on improving these lists and how fast they are accessed. If these lists were shared with governments like the UK France Germany, and Holland, these mistakes would be reduced because access to the lists would be instant instead of waiting for one department in the US to scan them all. But standard hard headed policy wont do that despite having no reason not to.

[Hyperion2]

Don't forget too that the only way the US gets the passenger list is when the originating country decides to send it.

The US would LOVE to have those names prior to departure, but there are other nations who aren't as interested in sharing that information.

[Craig.]

Actually the rule is the list has to be received by the US government no later than 15 minutes after departure. All flights going to the US have to have the list in or they will be turned and sent back to their departure airport. Sending it isnt an option.
If the US would hand over the name list then other countries wouldnt have to worry about giving out this info to the US. Then they could just send confirmation to the US that the list has been checked and cleared, Co-operation between nations is the only way to go.

[Hagar]

I don't think US security would do that Craig. Nor would I expect them to. I don't have much faith in these lists anyway. As I've mentioned before, the most likely threat would come from people not on any list.

[Hagar]

Actually the rule is the list has to be received by the US government no later than 15 minutes after departure. All flights going to the US have to have the list in or they will be turned and sent back to their departure airport. Sending it isnt an option.

To clarify the position on this I checked the current travel regulations on the US Embassy website. http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/faqsindex.htm

What is the Advanced Passenger Information System?
This is a system where commercial air carriers or vessels collect and submit biographic data from a passport, visa, or other travel document prior to the passengers departure to the United States and electronically transmit that data to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection in advance of the air carrier's or vessel's arrival. The implementation date of this regulation has not yet been announced. Information concerning APIS is available from U.S. Customs at www.customs.treas.gov.

I find this a tad disconcerting.

Is it correct that I should not lock my luggage?
As of January 1, 2003, the Transport Security Administration (TSA) began screening 100% of checked baggage at all 429 commercial airports across the United States. In some cases screeners will have to open your baggage as part of the screening process. Therefore, TSA suggests that you help prevent the need to break your locks by keeping your bags unlocked. If your bag is unlocked then TSA will simply open the bag and screen the bag. However if the bag is locked and TSA needs to open your bag then locks may have to be broken. You may keep your bag locked if you choose but TSA is not liable for damage caused to locked bags that must be opened for security purposes. If TSA screeners open your bag during the screening procedure they will close it with a tamper evident seal and place a notice in your bag alerting you to the fact that TSA screeners opened your bag for inspection. Further details concerning the screening process and other issues related to enhanced security measures at U.S. airports is available from the TSA website at www.tsa.gov.

If I don't lock my baggage there's every possibility that someone could tamper with it. Baggage handlers don't have the best of reputations. Surely it would be better to examine it at the point of departure & seal it afterwards.

[Hyperion2]

Baggage handlers don't have the best of reputations.

AHEM.  As a former baggage handler who has gone through all of the necessary ten year federal criminal background check, as well as all other background researching, I assure you, the majority of baggage handlers are fine.  They're not going to put a bomb in your toothpaste.  lol

[Hagar]

No offence but there have been several cases of organised theft from passengers baggage on a large scale at Gatwick alone. The last case I know about was a few years ago so they might have clamped down on it now.

PS. Maybe not. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3856023.stm

[Hyperion2]

Oh sure, there will always be cases of idiots.  But in all the flights I've loaded and offloaded, and all the people that have helped me, I've never once heard even a story of someone doing that.


There are always bad apples.  We know that.  ;)

[Hagar]

[quote]There are always bad apples.

[Hyperion2]

I'd still contend that those are the exception, not the rule.  But I can see how it might make you a little concerned while travelling.

I never bring anyting really valuable with me (in checked baggage, anyway).  Anything I can't part with goes with me on the plane or it stays home.  lol

[Ivan]

And if a terrorist wanted to do something to a plane and knew they could crash it into a building then you might end up with another lockerbie over the ocean or a large city.

Lockerbie was retalliation for the Vincennes incident. (for anyone not old enough to know: USS Vincennes was an early AEGIS equipped frigate that shot down a civil airliner beacues the computer thought it was a F-14)
If the Vincennes commander had got a fair trial (which IMHO he didn't as he eventually was cleared of any charges while it was clear from the radar logs of the other ship involved in the action that he was wrong) the whole lockerbie thing could have been prevented

I believe the Lockerbie bomb was intended to explode over the ocean which it would have done if the flight had not been delayed. In this case they would probably still be trying to find out what happened to that aircraft. No amount of personal screening would have prevented it as the bomb was in the baggage hold & the person that planted it was not even aboard the aircraft.  

I think that the luggage scanners of that time weren't modified to detect semtex. And even when the thing could distinguish between metal and plastic, the bomb was cleverly packed in a portable casette player at the position where you would expect return signals indicating a mix of plastic and metal-like material.

To date there hasn't been one successful attack post-9/11.  I don't think that's a flawed system at all.

Perhaps not in the USA, elsewhere a lot happened
Post 9/11 stuff:
- Madrid trains, and the subsesquent blowing up of the habitation block when the spanish police had surrounded the suspects.
more recently southern Thailand and Uzbekistan

The only thing that changed is the selection of suitable targets and the method (provoking the government to get support), not the final goal. (Uzbekistan did support the offensive in Afghanistan and Thailand is an US ally)

[Hyperion2]

Right, but this thread was about a flight coming into the United States.  I can't speak to the security measures in Spain, France, Neptune or the Moon, because I don't know what they're doing there.

[Craig.]

cant speak for neptune but i know the martians are stepping up their security with all the  recent activity there:)

[Hyperion2]

They wouldn't have to if it weren't for the extremist Plutonians.  They've really brought galacticism to a new level with their latest antics.

[TacitBlue]

damn those plutonians... Why do they send the diverted flights to Maine? why not do what they are gonna do at the flights destination so that all of the other people onboard are delayed?