Not A Comforting Thought

[RichieB16]

One thing that people tend not to think about is that we do have the ability to make synthetic petrolium products.  At any auto store right now, you can buy synthatic oil-its just more expensive.  So, it would be possible to make gasoline out of the same stuff-unfortunately it would be both more expensive and would continue to polute, but it is possible.  So, my point is-there is a way to keep using the same systems that we are even when the oil runs out.  But, in my opinion we would be better off to find newer sources of energy.

I personally think the best source of power currently is hydroelectroic.  It does not have the same "risks" associated with nuclear and you get a lot of power out of it.  Unfortunately, it is not really good for the rivers and there are simply some places where it won't work.

In the long run, we will adapt.  Once the oil runs out and there is none left-we won't cease to exist.  We'll figure something out.  Since there is nothing I can do to help at the moment, I'm not worring about it.  If I ever get the oppertunity to help make decisions to change things-I'll worry about it then.  

[commoner]

Almost anything you can think of involves oil somewhere in its manufacture. You have to look at this in a much broader sense.

....I said early on in this discussion (I've been to bed since) that there might well be NO alternative that could cover all the aspects that oil does..........as more posts came in....well....I think I might have unfortunately been on the right track....Fuel alternatives and lubricants such as Castor oil which was/is considered superior to "ordinary" oil, ..yes there are alternatives, Willow coppices near my home are used to help fuel power stations,  but as we have seen, the uses of crude oil are boundless...............

 IMHO....OIL will be found to be IRREPLACEABLE by any other single material........commoner

[ATI_7500]

Interesting you should mention that...I remember reading that Eastern Bloc aircraft ran an an alcohol based fuel (and people drinking the fuel became a problem...)

Any truth to that?

Nay.

[Hagar]

Nay.

Does that apply to aircraft using alcohol-based fuel or people drinking it or both? Pure alcohol is used on aircraft for various things & there have been examples of people drinking it. Some have even become addicted to it. This is always a risk if it's generally available.

[bm]

They're proposing to build wind farms all over the UK but it's too little, too late in my view. Some people naturally object to hundreds of these darned great wind generators spoiling the landscape. I'm not sure that those with no objections realise quite how big they are or what it involves. I have mixed views on this myself & don't fancy seeing the South Downs covered with them although this would be an ideal location. You need a lot of them as they're not particularly efficient. I think one generator is capable of supplying power for something like 4,000 homes but that is only when there's wind to power them.

Don't get me started on wind farms Wind farms are not the awnswer at all im afraid my friend!

The fundamental dificulty with Windfarms is they cannot be relied upon. The availability is very low as the operating & maintainance costs are surprisingly high. Due to this Ibelieve they are only operational for roughly 11% of the time. The fact is that wind energy costs TWICE conventional, which ignores the additional cost of the duplicate power station that is needed as back up.

Thus they are not the solution to either our power problems or even global warming

[Hagar]

Don't get me started on wind farms Wind farms are not the awnswer at all im afraid my friend!

Just to clarify this Birdy. I never said they're the answer although they might be useful in some places. The government seems to think somewhat differently.

[bm]

Lol! - Roger that Hagar but you're the only person holding the banner for them

The government seems to think somewhat differently.

Im afraid the thinking patterns in nearly all gov sectors is FUBAR imho these days Although I hang on to the hope they are just waiting for the time it becomes politically possible to support nuclear power. I repeat I am hanging on  :-/

[Hagar]

Lol! - Roger that Hagar but you're the only person holding the banner for them

Not sure where you got that idea. I was simply pointing out what they intend doing in the UK with full support of the government. From what I can make out it's already been decided. Whether they actually believe this is the answer is anyone's guess. I was never keen on wind farms myself although if they decide to put them all along the South Downs I could hardly object to it. You would need a lot of them to be any use at all which I don't think most people realise & they're keeping very quiet on that. The fact is that you have to consider every possible alternative to oil. I'm no authority on the subject but I'm sure there are plenty if they put their minds to it.

I'm not keen on the idea of nuclear power either. I think you might change your mind about that if they decided to build a nuclear reactor anywhere near you. I'm not convinced they're safe & there is the question of nuclear waste. Until they come up with a satisfactory solution to that I don't think they should build any more. Burying it or shooting it into space are not acceptable options to my mind.

PS. This puts it in perspective. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1565331,00.html

To replace a 1,000 megawatt (MW) nuclear station supplying just 1/65th of peak demand requires 30 miles of wave machines; or it would need a wind farm that would cover an area equivalent to Inner London, or for solar power, it would require an area half as much again. If we were to try to replace the output of that 1,000MW nuclear power station with bio-oils or biomass fuels, we would have to cover the entire Scottish Highlands with oil-seed rape or turn Wales into a giant willow coppice.

[bm]

Lol! - Roger that Hagar but your the only one to have even thought about even thinking holding the banner for up for them - even a tiny little one saying there ok

I do agree with you on nuclear However if they are thinking of covering the whole of scotland & wales with windfarms or even plastering the sea with them I would think that cutting off an area as a safe zone round a nuclear plant would be probably an equally good idea.

Anyhoo, I don't think we're going to run out of gas/oil/non-renewable sources for some time yet. By that time lets hope a solution to these problems has been found. It only takes one man with an idea and last time I looked there were a fair amount of two legged beasts around the place Although I must say im not keen on that either....... Perhaps we should go back to eating roots & shoots & have done with it....

[Woodlouse2002]

France has accepted Nuclear power. I believe they're just about entirely powered by Nuclear power plants these days. They've had no problems and no one seems to care. I say again that if we want to use power at the same rate we are at the moment, then nuclear is the only option.

[Hagar]

France has accepted Nuclear power. I believe they're just about entirely powered by Nuclear power plants these days. They've had no problems and no one seems to care.

So they have & guess where some of those nuclear reactors are? Right, just across the Channel from where I'm sitting now. If anything did go wrong I'm the one in most danger, not anyone in France unless the wind changes from the prevailing SW. Goodness knows how much toxic waste they dump in the Channel. To the best of my knowledge there are no current plans to build any new nuclear power stations in Europe.

[TacitBlue]

back to wind farms: why not put them on platforms a few miles out to sea where noone will see them? that would solve that half of the problem. theres still the issue of them not working right all the time...

[Hagar]

back to wind farms: why not put them on platforms a few miles out to sea where noone will see them? that would solve that half of the problem. theres still the issue of them not working right all the time...

I believe that's exactly what they intend doing, as well as the land-based farms. http://www.natwindpower.co.uk/northhoyle/northhoyle.htm
The offshore wind turbines would probably be more expensive to build & maintain than those on land. As I said before, you would need an awful lot of them to be the slightest use.

[commoner]

Does that apply to aircraft using alcohol-based fuel or people drinking it or both? Pure alcohol is used on aircraft for various things & there have been examples of people drinking it. Some have even become addicted to it. This is always a risk if it's generally available.

....lol...I like a drop of the Scottish water and can keep up with the best, but even I would have trouble out guzzling a 747, even on a good day.............commoner

[Hagar]

....lol...I like a drop of the Scottish water and can keep up with the best, but even I would have trouble out guzzling a 747, even on a good day.............commoner

Well, that wasn't quite what I was getting at.

Suppose they sold alcohol in your local filling station, just like they do with petrol. Nobody in their right mind would drink petrol but I reckon more than a few bright sparks would go into the moonshine business.