Another Warning!

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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Hagar » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 am

[quote]Flying today, is probably safer than it has ever been - terrorism wise. I know, whenever we have even the slightest sliver of information about the possibility of terrorist activity here, it's all hands on deck, everyone gives 500%. . .
Last edited by Hagar on Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Politically Incorrect » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:39 am

Once again Hagar you post nothing but fact!!
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate and respect most Police Officers, but the last thing we need in airports are more guns waiting to be pulled! I really don't feel any safer knowing that there are 65-100 people in plain clothes brandishing weapons!! For one If I were in a bathroom "taking care of business" and the guy next to me moved his coat in a way that I saw a gun (the kind that takes bullets) I don't know how I would react! First off I know I wouldn't ask if he was a cop, i would probably try to take him down and wait for help!
And I know the way it is today I'm not the one one that would do that for his/her own saftey and the saftey of others. Point is all I can see is this leading too more mistakes and accidents possibly causing death (of innocent people)!!!!
And like Hagar pointed out, the most recent occurances of weapons of one kind or another getting on board a airplane have happened right here where we have this "extra security" where as in the past events like this have been taken care of using minimal security.

And Hagar I don't know where the word "intelligence" comes in at?
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) if they are the "center" of our intelligence, no wonder us regular Americans get a bad rap from other countries :)
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby xwing » Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:36 pm

Since 9/11--How many hi-jackings have there been?!?

Now tell me that the CIA, airport security, etc have not done a good job.

One of two things have happened:
Last edited by xwing on Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Craig. » Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:45 pm

two reasons why no Hijackings. Those responsible for the planning of the Sept 11th attacks are currently a little to busy running cave to cave to plan out these types of missions again.
And the other type of hijacking is the sort used to get attention and some form of prisoner release or money bonus, these people know these days that any attempt wont be tolerated and would be ended right then and there, thus making it pointless, so they dont bother.
With all these so called advances in security, i have seen too many illegal items getting through checkpoints to make me believe the differance is worth the time money and effort. Add to that we have the US security agencys preaching to us how we need to improove to thier standards. Well i am sorry but we have been doing this thing for longer than most americans knew the word terrorist. When they stop allowing knives tazers, and other banned items on board, then and only will it be worth it. When they can do this without making all visitors feel like they arnt wanted, again then is when it will be worth it.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby xwing » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:09 pm

Do you have any idea how many people board planes everyday in the US and around the world?  The logistics of finding every knife, box-cutter and sharp stick is a nightmare and maybe impossible.

The ONLY way to absolutely secure a flight is to search every piece of luggage that goes on board (and I don't have a proplem with that, if it will save lives)  But then alot of you will scream "oh my freedom, my precious freedom"  You can't have your cake and eat it too.

There are terrorists in the states right now--they are not all in caves somewhere hiding.  They do not all take direction form one particullar source.  But the ones that are hiding in caves, are there because of us(US)

Don't you think if a terrorist thought they could hi-jack a plane right now they would.  It would be a HUGE statement saying "YOU CAN'T STOP US".   But they haven't.  Why? Intel and security.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Craig. » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:22 pm

you do realise its not just the states that is a target. They could take a plane if they needed too trust me. Cargo planes are very easy pickings,, they may be smart but they do still take specific orders, and the planning involved is huge, they dont just get together and decide they wanna go ahead and hijack a plane that day. When the time is right they will again sadly. Then again they may not even go with planes. Look at this recent Bio scare. terrorism in its simplist form in my opinion. The US security and intel network has not exactly had good press lately. Same goes for the british Intel.
Just look at the Bali bombing, all these Iraq bombings, doesnt have to be on US soil to strike a blow. Its only a matter of time before someone attempts something in the UK, but thanks to the IRA, we are generally prepaired for it. However there are still many weaknesses here to. It'll happen, just a matter of time.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby xwing » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:33 pm

agreed :'(
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Craig. » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:37 pm

Before i get chewed out here.
I will agree and i do think US intel has improved and has helped, That i cant argue with. But it isnt the Intel or the CIA who need to improve their work. Its the TSA, the "front line" against these terrorists. These guys are being paid $15 an hour, to do this job, most of them only have a high school diploma, and little security background experiance. These are the guys who should step up and get everything done. The CIA's work means nothing if these guys still get on board a plane with weapons.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Scottler » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:48 pm

Terrorists and virus programmers are in the same union.  Every time you create a fix for a virus, the next version comes out and gets around the fix.

Terrorists are no different.  The only thing you can do is hope that you're able to at least slow them down.

As for the threat they pose, I don't care if the US Government lets us know about three threat per day, I don't care WHY there have been no 9/11 v2.0...the fact is that there hasn't been.  

That's enough for me.
Great edit, Bob.


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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Politically Incorrect » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:14 pm

HOW MANY HI-JACKINGS HAS THER BEEN SINCE 9/11?!?

YOU ALL SHOULD BE PRAISING THE EFFORTS AND EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE FINE PEOPLE!



How many were there before?

If you look at the Stats, Hijacking a aircraft wasn't something that happened everyday.
The point some of us are making is that when you compare the way it was, too the way it is now, very little has been accomplished besides the inconvienence of the innocent.
I really haven't seen any proof that the airlines and flying in general is any safer now than it was before with lesser but more effective security measures.
I also think that the threats that have been thwarted you mention, have been the same before the tragic date that is being used as the main reference point but now it is just made more public than in the past. It is now "news" where before the threat was stopped and no one thought twice about it.
And the reason there have been no other successful attemts by terrorists is because they aren't looking at aircraft at the present time, they are looking for something that isn't being watched, the least expected. And with all the attention on aircraft that the Govenment is focusing on it is leaving all sorts of other possiblities open for attacks by other means to be planned undetected. and only when IT happens will people say "We never thought they would do that" and that is when we all will realize that too much attention was put towards one thing instead of looking for the other.
Point is I think and I'm sure some others will agree that too much time, money, and effort is being wasted on aircraft and flying in general, whereas it should be used for looking at the other possibilities that exists!

And like CraigL has stated and others including myself have said before it isn't only the Government agencies that are too blame but the people with the lack of attention and skill that are placed in the position of "protecting" us that is allowing the "illegal" items to pass through security.

I don't want to sound like I'm not giving credit where credit is due. The Government has done allot in trying to make flying safe for all but I think it has reached the point of overkill and it isn't as effective as they would like you to belive. After all they are the Government, they have a big reputation to uphold and will do anything to prove they are "doing the job".  That includes lying and putting the lives of others at stake, and telling people what they want to hear to make them think that something is being done!
This is the way the Govenment has always done things and they always will.

" Don't you think if a terrorist thought they could hi-jack a plane right now they would.  It would be a HUGE statement saying "YOU CAN'T STOP US".   But they haven't.  Why? Intel and security."

No!
Why would they? I have said this before and will again. Terrorist's point in life is to instill fear in all people on earth. And that work is being done for them, and being done by the same people who are "out to stop them".
The Government. You see they are using the Government combined with the media to do thier dirty work.
They would love nothing more than to be a army big enough to just start a war against "good" and fight to the death without care, but because there are far more good than evil they have to resort to "fear" as their main weapon and watch us all self destruct! And that is what is happening, we all are scared, scared about what might happen next, where is it going to happen, how is it going to happen etc. That is thier goal make us "fear" them and that is exactaly what is happening!
They are slowly eating away at the lives of every human being, by fear, and even financally and economically. And they aren't even doing anything, we are doing it too ourselves! They are sitting back watching, and planning for their next move. So when they see that we are no longer jumping at our own shadows they will strike again to reassure us that they are still there.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Politically Incorrect » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:25 pm

Terrorists and virus programmers are in the same union.  Every time you create a fix for a virus, the next version comes out and gets around the fix.

Terrorists are no different.  The only thing you can do is hope that you're able to at least slow them down.


Very interesting comparison! And a good one at that!!!!!!!!!!

Makes you ask why do they do this?!
What is the point?
Are they making up for some sort of personal insecurities?
Or is it just a way for them to get the feeling of being powerful at the expense of others?
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby xwing » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:55 pm

What an awesome topic (debate) this has become.
Last edited by xwing on Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Hagar » Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:24 pm

You make a very good point W4P. I live in the UK & can only give you my own opinion based on what I read & hear in the media + comments from people like Fretnstuff who is in the US. I love the USA & have visited many times. Had some wonderful holidays in various places & travelled widely. I've been treated with nothing but kindness & generosity wherever I've been. I would recommend it to anyone - or would have.

I must admit that I would not be inclined to visit again in the present circumstances. I'll be taking my holidays in Europe for the foreseeable future as I personally would feel much safer. There are plenty of nice places I haven't visited much closer to home. I don't think I'm the only one to feel this way by a long chalk. This is what I meant by the "media" having a big influence on the way people feel about these things in the way they report it. To my way of thinking they seem to be intent on destroying all faith in the airline business. I think this is a shame.
Last edited by Hagar on Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby xwing » Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:30 pm

I am so jealous of those in Europe.  All that culture, all that history, all the diversity packed into a relatively small area.  What an amazing place... :o
If I were overseas I don't think I would ever travel to the US.  Unless I wanted to wittness over-indulgence in everything (drugs, sex, food, power, wealth etc..) and a dreadful allocation of wealth and resources.  
(although--I might make a trip for Letterman!)

I bet I shocked most of you with my "anti-americanism" there!! ;)
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Re: Another Warning!

Postby Politically Incorrect » Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:40 pm


I bet I shocked most of you with my "anti-americanism" there!! ;)


No not any of us Americans that understand TRUTH :)
Don't get me wrong but I LOVE my country, but I hate they way it is becoming!! We are becoming prisoners in what was once called a FREE Country!
And to top it off we sure the hell aren't advertising to the world how great a place this is was :'(
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