Discipline

[Galactic_eyes]

[quote]I don't know man, Ivory had that nice piquant after dinner taste if I remember correct.

[Scottler]

I was spanked as a child.  As was my wife.  Both of us turned out fine.  Neither of us were beaten senseless for no reason.  If we did something worthy, we got smacked.  End of story.

There's a world of difference between spanking and abusing.  It has nothing to do with losing control.  Rather, it has to do with teaching your child that there are consequences for their actions.

For those of you who think spanking is wrong, here's a test I'd ask you to perform, just to see how wrong it is.

Stand your child in the middle of the street, preferably during rush hour.

Instead of running into the middle of the road to aggressively grab them (after all, this might hurt them if you do it too hastily), stand on the side of the street, out of harm's way, and politely (without raising your voice) explain to them that if they don't get out of the road right now, they're going to get a time out.

[Saitek]

So it seems that;
      1) Most of us have been spanked.
      2) Most of us agree that we were wrong (most of the time) and that we deserved a punishment of some sort.
      3) Most of us agree that the spanks did the trick and turned us into one of the best bunch of pp around.
      4) Most of us agree that society is worse than it used to be and at the same time discipline has fallen in the Home and that many of the kids today need something to curb them in their ways.

Could I suggest that the poll may show that most is us are for spanking? I'm interested in the result.

Ben

[Politically Incorrect]

Hyperion's test although extreme I feel says it the best
And if a parent were to try it I would say the outcome would be tragic.

[Romulus111VADT]

One thing to keep in mind when disciplining children. Whether it's a fussing out type, paddling, or spanking. Make sure the child understands what they've done wrong. You may think they know, but what you perceive as wrong the child may not. When there is more than one child, make sure that you are disciplining the correct child.

Case in point-

I was about 7 years old at the time this happened. I was on the beach, sitting just outside the surf where the waves would come up near me. My middle brother (about 5 ) and baby brother (about 1) were some 80 feet from me up the beach. My grandfather was a further 40 or so feet from them up the beach talking with his cronies. My middle brother threw sand in my baby brothers face and he started crying. My grandfather looked at them and proceeded to draw out his belt. He walked right past them 80 feet to me and proceeded to beat the living crap out of me for throwing sand in my baby brothers face. Even though I had my back to them he said that I had sand on my hands. Like no $hit, I was playing on a BEACH in the SAND....what a frigging dumba$$.

[Wing Nut]

You know what I want to know?  How do you expect a child who is dependent upon you for EVERY single thing in their life to truly trust you if you hit them?  The notion is totally preposterous to me.  You are that child's conduit to life, and you would betray them by causing them pain?  If you cannot take the time and effort to correct them in a way that is not coming from anger, or at best, a measured response that inflicts pain, then how can they count on anything you say to be true?

I came from an abusive household.  I have had many beatings, I know what duct tape tastes like, and I know what a coat hanger feels like on your back.  Almost as bad is those little orange Hot Wheels tracks.  Growing up, I made a conscious decision never to hit a child.  

It has worked.  My three year old twins have never felt thee sting of a hand.  They are well adjusted, not spoiled ( I think), and always say 'please', 'thank you', and 'you're welcome' when speaking.  It hasn't always been easy, and doing things this way takes more patience, but when my children look at me, I can SEE the total trust in their eyes.  All spanking is is that lack of patience.  You don't want to take the time to explain things, so you hit to get the message across.

Eno Wrote:

A short sharp shock occasionally doesn't do any child any harm. As long as the circumstances are reasonable and warrant it.

See the above paragraph..

Eno Wrote Again:

You can't reason with a 3 year old ... I know I have to attempt it, every day, with my disabled 12 year old step daughter, who has a mental age of 3ish.

I reason with TWO three year olds every day.  Anyone who thinks you can't reason with them hasn't tried hard enough.  Even worse here is the idea of hitting a mentally challenged child.  A 'normal' child will eventually grow up and make decisions for themselves about the validity of spanking.  A mentally challenged child will not.  She will forever forget what she is told, and your spankings will be causing her pain for nothing.  That's just wrong in so many ways...

Jared Wrote:

Ah, reminds me of a funny story..

Once upon a time when I was about 14-15 years old I did something so bad I can't even remember what it was...something stupid I'm sure, and my mom said wait until your father gets home...

So he came home, found out what I'd done and began to lash at me with his belt... When the tip of the belt broke off he turned it around and used the buckle.  

Later that night I was feeding the cats feeling pretty confident that my beating was over, nope I was wrong..

Came up behind me and went to paddle me hard...well what's a childs first instinct? Why to pu their hands between their butt and the offendign hand...well lucky for me I had a rather large metal can of cat food in one hand....needless to say I was in even more trouble...I didn't mean to do it I swear..

What's the moral of the story? Why my poor father hasn't had any trouble with me since then, not because I'm afraid, but I think we both grew up that day....  

I'm not for it in any sense, but I do agree that it can be used effectively if nothing else works..

Just my two cents..  

Jared, do you really see this as funny?

Flyboy Wrote:

I deserved too. Once I got my mouth washed out with soap because I learned the "F" word that day in school... Well, didn't reallyy learn it, but heard it. So me, being a natural second-grader got home that day and walked up to my mom and said, "Mommy, what does fuc* mean?"...

This is a perfectly normal question to ask.  I must hear twenty times a day one or the other child asking "What's That?"  If you punish a child for asking questions, how can you expect them to learn?

[Hagar]

[quote]This is a perfectly normal question to ask.

[Woodlouse2002]

You know what I want to know?  How do you expect a child who is dependent upon you for EVERY single thing in their life to truly trust you if you hit them?

Without proper discipline all reason and trust is wasted. As soon as a child realises that it can do wrong and not be punished for it then all respect and trust is lost. Usually in this situation a good telling off will set them to rights, but sometimes that's not enough and a quick slap on the arse will give them the shock they need not to do it again.

If you can raise a child with out having to punish it then good for you. But as your children get older you may just have to change your methods to keep them on the straight and narrow.

[Wing Nut]

You know what Woody?  I can tell my children they're doing wrong with just a look.  I'll stand there and stare at them for about 30 seconds, then they'll get all sheepish and nervous, and you can SEE them thinking about what they're doing.  Eventually, they'll stop, usually apologize, then go about there business.  Do you knwo what my kids are afraid of?  Time out.  The most I have to do (not always, some times I do have to physically intervene) is count to two, then say 'If I say three, it's time out' and they reconsider their actions.

I'm not saying all of this to brag, although I am proud of the way I parent.  I am trying to illustrate that spanking is not a necessary means of disciplining a child.

[eno]

You at least have the knowlege that your 3 year olds will grow out of their 3 year old behaviour.  I, on the other hand, have had to attempt to reason with a 3 year old mind  for the last 4 years and probably till the end of my days unless medical science makes major advances.
As I said in the post  I have never hit her ... and NEVER will, although I have been tempted on occasion. The only times Hannah has been smacked have been for very good reason and usually after escalating stubboness and her usual retaliation of venting her anger on anything and anyone else whom she feels deserves it. Her younger brother is usually the victim of this.
I also said that her mother regretted having to be so harsh however it was necessary and since the last smack Hannah received she hasn't repeated the behaviour,  not out of fear, but out of realisation that it was wrong. Hopefully it won't have to be repeated.

I would also like to point out that my step son also has special needs, he is autistic and can be equally as frustrating  as Hannah. However Liam is becomming more easy to reason with and is beginning to make himself better understood. Liam can have extremely annoying habits and some of them in the past were dangerous. The dangerous habits were delt with by a sharp tap on the back of the hand and saying "Naughty" in a firm manner. Liam has stopped doing all but one of these dangerous habits. He still puts inappropriate things in his mouth and when caught spits them out and says "Naughty". He wouldnt have understood without the small amount of pain  as "Naughty" still has no real meaning.

I think that each to their own when it comes to chastizing their child but when it goes over the top and becomes abuse, that's when everyone has a responsibility to prevent it.

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]You know what Woody?

[Wing Nut]

[quote]
As I said in the post

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]


I'm not quite sure what you mean.

[Wing Nut]

What's the difference if it's Eno or his wife?

[Hagar]

[quote]What's the difference if it's Eno or his wife?