Fighter guns - preference

[HawkerTempest5]

[quote]


I must say, they throw a hell of alot of rounds, but they would have been reasonably ineffective, compared to the .50's. But then damage is damage.

As I said earlier, the lack of an explosive round would have made them less effective indeed.
There was apparently a .30 cal explosive round introduced some time after BoB, but I'm not sure how much difference they made. (Maybe someone has some more specific info about this round).

I'm lead to understand that the pliots liked them more because they could see the little explosions on the enemy aircraft and this gave them the best indication that they were getting hits.

[ozzy72]

Lets face it Roger, the Hispano definately came under the chocolate oven glove list of toys........

Mark

[denishc]

 In defence for the eight 30 cal. MGs, I once saw an interview with a German pilot about the Battle of Britian and he said that flying through the fire of a British fighter was like flying through a lead curtain.  

[Professor Brensec]

Sorry about the nationality error, Smoke, got confused, mate.  ;D

The Hurricane, as we know, was quickly assigned more to the 'intercept' role, while the Spit was your fighter, as such.

The Hurricanes that were assigned to bomber intercept, was that the 8 x .30 cal version or the 4 x 20 mm, or both?

I know that the Hurricane was responsible for more kills during the BoB than the Spit. Was this due to the increased numbers or the fact that more of the kills were bombers, or both.
It would be interesting to see some figures regarding the amount and type of planes shot down by Hurricanes and Spits and further, which variant of each plane (armament wise) was responsible for which kills etc.

It would be a very interesting table indeed. Can one of our brilliant researchers come up with something? I've had a quick look, but I'm on AOL time restriction till the end of my billing cycle (two more days) due to 'overuse' (Bastards! ).

[Smoke2much]

I voted for the combo out of loyalty to the Hurricane, nothing more .

I think it has a lot to do with the wall of lead principle, I was told once (and I have no evidence to back this up) that the Hurricanes wings flexed slightly during flight.  This had the effect of spreading the pattern of bullets out and where the German fighters and Spitfire were highly accurate with the Hurricane if you got close enough you simply couldn't miss.

I feel a lot of it may well have to do with the armour situation discussed in another thread. During the BoB armour was not great on either side.  One bullet in the pilot and in most situations you have a kill, he will either bail out or retire.

It would also be useful to tabulate claimed kills against recorded losses, this often shows a slight differance.

Have fun.

Will

[HawkerTempest5]

[quote]Sorry about the nationality error, Smoke, got confused, mate.

[Professor Brensec]

It seems where right back at the Spit Versus Hurri debate, aren't we Hawk.........

Ahh who cares!..........I agree completely with all your contentions about the Hurricane.

I didn't meant to infer that it was used 'soley' as an interceptor, but all indications are that it was used in that role more so, as time progressed and the Spit proved itself as the superior 'fighter'.

I am just interested in the reasons the Hurricane was delegated (not 'relegated') to that role? Was it the 4 x cannon? Or another reason other than the Spit''s were better as the Fighter rather than interceptor 'in the main'?

[HawkerTempest5]

It seems where right back at the Spit Versus Hurri debate, aren't we Hawk.........

Ahh who cares!..........I agree completely with all your contentions about the Hurricane.

I didn't meant to infer that it was used 'soley' as an interceptor, but all indications are that it was used in that role more so, as time progressed and the Spit proved itself as the superior 'fighter'.

I am just interested in the reasons the Hurricane was delegated (not 'relegated') to that role? Was it the 4 x cannon? Or another reason other than the Spit''s were better as the Fighter rather than interceptor 'in the main'?

Sorry if it came accross as if I was trying to correct what you said there Prof old pal I just typed out a few facts about the BoB period Hurricane to try to answer some of your questions.
I think the Hurricane was more associated with bomber intercepts because there were just more of them around and it was more likely that the bombers would encounter the Hurricane.
The 4 x 20mm MkIIc version did not turn up until after the battle although I remember reading somewhere that  the first victory scored by a cannon armed Hurricane was during the of the BoB. Whatever, they were not around in any numbers if at all.

[denishc]

 Now that the stats are posted let me say that I almost went with the 4 20mm cannon arrangement.  A few strikes from a 20mm weapon could easily bring down most aircraft flown in WW2.  But with a very limited number of rounds available to the pilot, he would have to be a good shot to make his rounds count.  In the twisting, turning arena of air to air combat this must have been difficult.
 So after thinking it over I selecting the 6 50 cal MGs, choosing rate of fire and firing time (i.e. the total number of rounds an aircraft could carry) over the punch provided of the 20mm round.  

[chomp_rock]

Well the poll is closed but I have to go with 8 .30s  ;D . My favored tactic is getting really close in (where this config thrives) and "sawing" away with the storm of bullets (In CFS 1 2 and 3 of course) . But I keep in mind this configs is useless at long range. And both the Spit and Hurri have there merits so quit with the comparing!

[Loafing Smurf]

Did anybody hear about Metal Storm? Its going to fire 1 million rounds a miniute.

[Professor Brensec]

Did anybody hear about Metal Storm? Its going to fire 1 million rounds a miniute.

What's that, mate?  ;D

[HawkerTempest5]

And both the Spit and Hurri have there merits so quit with the comparing!

No one is comparing. We are having a discussion about our prefared fighter weapon choice. The Prof. asked a couple of questions about the role of the Hurricane during the Battle of Britain and I gave him a few answers. Not once did we compare the Spit to the Hurricane!

What's that, mate?  

Metal Storm is an electrically powered multi-barrel gun that fires all it's ammo in one big burst at very high speed. It can fire upto a million rounds per minute. Think that's right.

[Professor Brensec]

No one is comparing. We are having a discussion about our prefared fighter weapon choice. The Prof. asked a couple of questions about the role of the Hurricane during the Battle of Britain and I gave him a few answers. Not once did we compare the Spit to the Hurricane!

Metal Storm is an electrically powered multi-barrel gun that fires all it's ammo in one big burst at very high speed. It can fire upto a million rounds per minute. Think that's right.

So it's a more elaborate version of the 'Minigun'.

Still just 6 barrels or more?

Where are they going to store ammo for a gun that will fire 1 million rounds per min.

I x .50 cal round projectile weighs 10.5 grams without the shell so we'll say approx 20 grams completete (I imagine being a minigun they'd just be in a 'bucket', so no belt or anything) but that equals around 20,000 kilograms per 1 million rounds - THAT"S 20 TONNES!

How the heel are they going to feed the bloody thing.

20 Tons per minute. That's ridiculous!  ;D

COMMENTS?

[Smoke2much]

1 million rounds per minute equates to 16,660 rounds per second.

According to your calculations Prof that is 333333 grams per second, or 333 Kilograms.  This I feel may be useful as a computer controlled point defence weapon where space fo ammo is no issue, otherwise it is a little pointless.

Does anyone know the cost of a single round?

Will