I'm British and ashamed...

[Cobra]

Not sure how you can blame the welfare state on people getting a poor education. Really the people to blame are the conservatives and old labour for making a pigs ear out of the education system.

Oh common, Conservative's are practically perfect in every way  ;DHow did they in any way damage it? Back in the glory days of Mrs Thatcher things were a hell of a lot better, especially education!

I blame the welfare state because there is not real incentive for people to do well with it. If you knew that failing school would mean a life of poverty and hardship maybe people would work a bit harder!

[ozzy72]

I lived through the Thatcher era. Education was pants! Every week there was a teachers strike (or so it seemed) and nothing but trouble. I think all politicians treat teachers, doctors, nurses and servicemen like the scum of the Earth

[Woodlouse2002]

Not sure how you can blame the welfare state on people getting a poor education. Really the people to blame are the conservatives and old labour for making a pigs ear out of the education system.

Oh common, Conservative's are practically perfect in every way

[Brett_Henderson]

My mother was a teacher, so this was an oft discussed thing at our house.

Somewhere along the line, the touchy-feely types (code for grown up hippies and liberals) took charge of education here in the U.S.

They were so concerned about the kiddies self-esteem that they methodically eliminated anything that could damage it. All the things that would motivate a youngster (and his/her parents) to do well in school got phased out. Kids don't have to worry about getting an "F".. or even worry about being held back. Heck.. they don't even keep score, or even try to promote a competitive environment in Physical Education anymore. "We can't have a winner, because that would make someone a loser".

I can remember certain friends having to make a choice. Either Johnnie goes to Summer School (cancelling the family vacation) or he repeats 4th grade ! Now.. they just "socially promote" (because holding him back would hurt his feelings) Johnnie, and by the time he's in high school, he can barely read.

I blame the teacher's unions, for not only making sure that teachers follow this "outcome based education" nonsense... but also for protecting bad teachers. Then of course blame the parents for letting it happen... and for being less and less involved (after all.. young parents today, are products themselves, of this new system and really don't know any better).

Fortunately.. things are starting to swing back. But it will take longer to undo this damage, than it took to inflict it.

[Brett_Henderson]

I think all politicians treat teachers, doctors, nurses and servicemen like the scum of the Earth  

This is true. Once you become a civil servant, you're no longer motivated to "do it better than the other guy, else lose your job"... and you're a pawn for policy makers.

We've seen (here in the U.S.) what that can do to education.. that's why socialized medicine scares us to death.

[Hagar]

Stop blaming the teachers & politicians. Education starts with the parents. Unfortunately, if the parents are almost illiterate themselves the poor kids don't stand much chance. My daughter could read & write long before starting nursery school. This was because we read her a story every night without fail at bedtime no matter how busy we might have been. She could tell you what was written on the page long before she could actually read the words. This is the age when children absorb knowledge like a sponge & it wasn't long before she could read them herself. By the time they start school it's often too late.

I predict that my little granddaughter will be the same as her Mum in that respect.

Edit typo.

[Brett_Henderson]

Stop blaming the teachers & politicians. Education starts with the parents. Unfortunately, if the parents are almost illiterate themselves the poor kids don't stand much chance.

Illiteracy is the problem. Illiterate parents make it worse. That's always been true. The question is... How (and why) (and when) did it start getting worse ?

When the education system starts under-performing, it get's set into motion. That's where all these new, less than literate, parents are coming from.

I, as a parent can't MAKE the school district grade my child, threaten to make him repeat a grade, or let him learn to deal with basic competition outside of the home. That's the education system's job.

Now it is up to the parents to be involved..

[ozzy72]

I love the way people blame us teachers Visit a class sometime and witness what really goes on. I'm not allowed to shout at a kid even if they're swinging from the light fittings and setting the desk on fire!
This is why I have near psychopathic hatred of lawyers! If I so much as yell at one of the little buggers I'm the one that'll get sued
Needless to say I'm looking at options outside of teaching come the end of the school year 'cos frankly I can't stand it any longer! And consider this I'm a damn good teacher and in great demand and the job has driven me to the point of quitting, are there going to be any good teachers left? No! Just people who don't care and the circle will continue until such time as the teachers are given the right to effect some riot control again... preferably with a bloody big stick!

[Brett_Henderson]

I love the way people blame us teachers

No.. I respect and empathize good teachers. It's the unions, and school boards putting them in bad situations, whom I blame.

[kingmarktheaviator]

I can see both sides of the coin here.  I agree with the comments that bad teachers are protected too much, they are!  This year for A-levels, my maths teachers have been TERRIBLE!  They really dont seem to care about what I get at the end of the course and I leave lessons not understanding anything.  It isnt my problem, I have tried to spend free time studying it myself and talking to better teachers, but as a result of that I end up doing worse in my other subjects...not what I want.  However, I agree with oz aswell, teachers are so limited as to what they can do, and yeah, good teachers are being phased out.  It is a shame really, because this nation (amongst others) NEED top class teachers.  Rather like the ones I was fortunate enough to have had for my GCSE's.
Just my two penneth worth.

Cheers,

Mark

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]I can see both sides of the coin here.

[Rifleman]

Tolerance in society as a whole, may just be as responsible for not doing anything about the pathetic level of written communication........."well, you know what I meant" is just a poor excuse for not knowing how it should have been written in the first place, and for teachers in our schools and parents at home, to not correct or challenge these situations, is inexcusible........

If things aren't written properly, then the meaning can be changed drastically and the paragraph may need to gone over two or three times to decipher the intended meaning and not what has been said unintentionally.........I find I have to do this quite frequently........to convey your thoughts specifically and explicitly is a wonderful thing........

Errors in simple things like - " to, too, two - then, than - your, you're - where, we're, were ", etc., along with puntuation, can make things very tough to read ...........I know that not everyone has English as a first language, but as Mark suggests in his opening, this isn't about the new-comers to our complex language.  

How else can we learn if we're not taught ?  

I'm glad you're the teacher Mark, and not me........                      

[expat]

I love the way people blame us teachers Visit a class sometime and witness what really goes on. I'm not allowed to shout at a kid even if they're swinging from the light fittings and setting the desk on fire!
This is why I have near psychopathic hatred of lawyers! If I so much as yell at one of the little buggers I'm the one that'll get sued
Needless to say I'm looking at options outside of teaching come the end of the school year 'cos frankly I can't stand it any longer! And consider this I'm a damn good teacher and in great demand and the job has driven me to the point of quitting, are there going to be any good teachers left? No! Just people who don't care and the circle will continue until such time as the teachers are given the right to effect some riot control again... preferably with a bloody big stick!

My wife who is a teacher was just short of threatened by a father of one of her pupils the other week because she gave the child a low mark on a piece of work that was almost unintelligible. The father who was from a non European country felt that his family name had been insulted  ::)
She was rather upset by it all needless to say. The fact that your child will not gain more that a badge with a few stars on it and a nice baseball cap in this life is naturally the teachers fault and nothing to do with the fact that you let your child do what it wants, watch what it wants and go to bed when it wants whilst you sloth your way through life as a shining example to you little Einstein.

Matt

[Mushroom_Farmer]

.......They were so concerned about the kiddies self-esteem that they methodically eliminated anything that could damage it. All the things that would motivate a youngster (and his/her parents) to do well in school got phased out. Kids don't have to worry about getting an "F".. or even worry about being held back. Heck.. they don't even keep score, or even try to promote a competitive environment in Physical Education anymore. "We can't have a winner, because that would make someone a loser". I can remember certain friends having to make a choice. Either Johnnie goes to Summer School (cancelling the family vacation) or he repeats 4th grade ! Now.. they just "socially promote" (because holding him back would hurt his feelings) Johnnie, and by the time he's in high school, he can barely read.

Which is why we now have idiots with high self-esteems running amuck. Not a good combination, BTW, but makes for interesting evening news.

[ozzy72]

I've been threatened by students and parents alike. I've been at knife point (the last mistake that particular student made). Alas students and parents have rights, teachers don't!