Thunderbolt Squadron Question

[Sock]

[quote]

[denishc]

 Interesting note on the P-47M, from what I've read, those that were camouflaged were not painted in standard Air Corps colors.  Supposedly the camo paint came from a British auto shop, which gave the M models unique hues of blue and violet.  

[Professor Brensec]

Hawk, I know many pilots liked their P51B's. many Australian pilots refused 'point blank' to get out of them. They didn't need the far increased range of the D model in the South Western Pacific and I think most had the 6 x gun upgrade done, so they really didn't want them.
Most of you probably know that my favourite mount is the P51-B (as oppsed to my favourite looker - the P40).........lol

Back to the P47. I see al the reasons for the Razors still being around and the fact that some may have preferred that plane etc etc. But my initial quandry was about the fact that this particular film continually shows that ratio of 1 x razor with 3 x bubbles. I was wondering if there was a specific reason for that 'constant'...........configuration in flights.  ;D

[Sock]

[quote]

[fido]

  Hey, if we are all just speculating, could it be the the groups in question were hoping the Germans would only see the bare metal Jugs and miss the olive drab one, leading to a supprise for the Hun.  At some point in the war weren't we trying to bait the Germans into a fight of attrition?  Just a thought.

              Fido

[Hagar]

I haven't seen this doco (wish I had) & know far too little about the P-47. I do know it's a mighty impressive looking machine.

From what Brensec is saying, this particular squadron were involved in ground support. I would assume they had adequate air cover & not expect to be in air to air combat. This is only a theory but maybe they used every aircraft they could get hold of. The razorbacks might then be equally distributed between flights. It sounds as good as any other theory to me unless anyone knows better.

[HawkerTempest5]

US 9th and British Second TAF were heavily engaged in ground support after D-Day and put just about everything they had to use, not just Typhoons and Jugs but Spits, Mustangs and P-38's also. A Razor would be just as effective in this roll as a Bubble and I really just think it was a case of "we've got 'em, so let's use 'em!"

[Sock]

I haven't seen this doco (wish I had) & know far too little about the P-47. I do know it's a mighty impressive looking machine.

From what Brensec is saying, this particular squadron were involved in ground support. I would assume they had adequate air cover & not expect to be in air to air combat. This is only a theory but maybe they used every aircraft they could get hold of. The razorbacks might then be equally distributed between flights. It sounds as good as any other theory to me unless anyone knows better.

9th AF P-47s rarly had air cover.  And all USAAF figther pilots, regardless of role, were taught as fighter pilots to fly air-to-air missions.  Pilots were not taught much ground support tactics.  Many fighter-bomber pilots had kills to there credit.

Sock

[Professor Brensec]

This Doco, although it is based around footage of a film commissioned by the USAAF in '44, has completely recent commentary and interviews. So none of the original info, that was part of the film, is not heard.

There is footage of the P47s engaing and shooting down, mainly what appear to be Fw190's. You dont see any 262's and the only Me109 I recall seeing in on the ground, desrtroyed.
Most of the 'gun camera' or 'cockpit' footage is of ground attacks on airfields, towns, vehicles, trains and unfortunately, quite a number of 'horse drawn' ammo wagons. (These poor horses). One pilot describes the road as being "Painted red with blood" after such an attack.

Anyway, it would seem the 1 in 4 arrangement is a mystery. I personally feel that they were just evenly distirbuted among the flights, maybe because of their one shortcoming, the poor visibilty. Or maybe just a bit of 'uniformity'. I dunno.  ;D

P.S. This is the Doco where I first heard of the method they used to 'kill' Tigers, by bouncing the .50 cal rounds off the road up underneath into the 'unarmoured' belly of the tank. One Pilot (Vet 'guest') describes this process in relative detail. It was apparently quite effective.  ;D

[Professor Brensec]

Towards the end of the Doco, there is an account of the situation regarding the 100's of thousands of German soldiers that had to walk back to Germany when the War was over.
There is some footage of these often pathetic looking convoys of Germans walking down a road, with the odd American or Brit, who has no rifle pointed or at the ready, just over the shoulder etc.

The amazing thing, to me at least, is that there are clearly what appear to be SS Officers, in full garb, happily chatting to GI's, and laughing etc.

How could this have been? They are Waffen SS, who I'm led to believe were just fighting soldiers and not involved in the atrocities etc. (However, I have seen other Doco's that have poked a few holes in this 'fact').

Even so, after having liberated the Death camps, how could these GI's etc be so ready to just forget and treat the blokes as anything other than animals. Surely the 'very obvious' skull and cross bones on the cap would be enough for them to realise who and what these blokes were. Many of the Wermacht hated them and what they knew they had done.

Maybe I'm being too harsh. maybe I'm assuming that every GI and Brit and Frenchman etc was aware, and had seen first hand, the work of the people. Maybe it was known then that the Waffen SS were not involved in this stuff? I dunno. I just saw it as..........surprising.  ;D

It is strange to see on a couple of occasions, a truck or car (loaed with, what appear to be relatively healthy Germans) go passed a legless or obvious badly wounded German, hoobling down the road.......................What a terrible time, when even the slightest degree of human decency seems to have gone out the window.