Criminal Sentences??

[Hagar]

Well, I'm no criminologist so my opinions don't count for much. Fixed penalties for certain crimes might work in some circumstances. The problem is that each case is different & should be treated as such in any "civilised" society. Some murderers who committed their crime under extreme provocation (crime of passion) are unlikely to reoffend & consequently no danger to the general public. Life imprisonment seems an inappropriate punishment.

I'm all for a fair trial where you are innocent until proven guilty. What annoys me is that someone who is clearly guilty is allowed to plead "not guilty" which wastes so much time & results in expensive court cases.

If prison is intended purely to remove criminals from society it will work. However, this has proved ineffective as both a deterrent & a permanent cure for habitual offenders. Criminals usually revert to their old ways soon after release. The only answer in this case would be life imprisonment for any crime. There must be a better way.

[Oz]

The only answer in this case would be life imprisonment for any crime. There must be a better way.

Well, until science finds a way to 'brainwash' criminals and give them new identities (ive seen too much Star Trek reruns) then this is probably the only way to stop crime, or at least give em 40, 50 years for a depending on the atrocity of the murder and mental state of the murderer; believe it or not some people do change after going to jail.. On occaissions where there are witnesess and evidence which may prove the defendants innocence at the end of a trial or in the case that a given crime has different motives such as passion as you stated, then a long normal trial may proceed as usual. Also there should be enough evidence to show that a given suspect has comitted a crime before the sentence is given...as it is.

[Deputy]

http://www.crimevictimsunited.org/measure11/measure11fulltext.htm

Measure 11 - I voted for it, and it passed. Being a Deputy Sheriff, under Ron Gordon. . . .  I have seen what the law has done. There hasn't been a "drastic" decline in serious crimes, but, its definiatly steadily decreasing.

[Oz]

well its very good to hear theyre doin something with this measure, and that it is gradually improving things

[ozzy72]

Hmm, it still seems to me that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I do admire many Arab countries for their solutions to this. You steal, off with a hand. You kill, off with your head. I know it isn't the answer (and many have been proved belatedly innocent), but as someone who had a close friend raped I'd say that off with their mum/daddy parts is a sensible policy, he sure isn't going to do that again!!!
I mean where is the justice in locking these worthless excuses for human beings in a prison that is a holiday camp? Am I the only one that feels that so-called justice is a farce?
If I caught a burgler right now trying to break into my flat I'd fix it so he could never take violin lessons!!
I admire Brad being a deputy sherriff, and my hat is off to him for it, I couldn't do it. I would be justice without mercy, and I know this is one of my great failings. But there are a lot of pickpockets/beggars/burglars in Pecs who are scared of the mere sight of me. So maybe I've done some good, my wife finds it funny that people run away from me rather than hassle me for pocket change. She says I'm probably the most effective anti-crime deterent known to Hungarians (even my colleagues at school threaten their students with 'if you don't behave we'll get Mark in here!').
I know this is a sensitive topic, and I sympathise with the innocents, my father was wrongfully marked by a taxman and spent 18 months in jail for something he didn't do, so I know about being a victim, I still have the mental scars even now, and a pathological hatred of taxmen, before being able to prove his innocence, and we never got an apology or a penny compensation, inspite of the fact they destroyed his business, and our family. So I feel I can see both sides.
No system is perfect, but lately things have become something of a joke. My advice, shoot the next taxman you meet (they are the biggest legalised crooks after insurance people), just kidding. I wouldn't be that humane.... Honest Pete I'm just joking Nooo OUCH. I didn't mean it. No I won't try the things in the Spanish Inquisition handbook. Aaarrrggghhh.....

Ozzy

[BFMF]

So that's why Pete asked you to be a moderator!

[Oz]

Well here in the states prisons arent exactly 'holiday camps'. Most prisons let inmates go out to courtyards from time to time; something i think most of them do not deserve. I really love those max Security prisons though. Inmates rarely get to go out to any courtyard: they spend most of their time in their very small cells with a low-voltage light. If it were up to me id leave them in there for the resst of their days, no magazines, no books, no nothin. Might sound a tad inhuman but they deserve it after the atrocities they commit. hey Ozzy, have UK prison officials contacted you for a position of warden yet? you could do a heck of a good job. Oh and almost forgot everyone heard about them chain gangs where they chain inmates together and make them work their backs off fixin the roads and such. I think thats a pretty good thing since not only will they be sufferein from the hot sun but they be helpin out the country by cleanin it up. Too bad its close to being completely abolished now... :-/

[ozzy72]

Alas no Oz, like I said I would be justice without mercy, and that is not a good combination. I'm the sort of guy that would look up paedophiles in the same cell as body building Afro-Carribean homosexual bank robbers just to teach them a lesson.
My uncle is one of Britains most senior prison governors, and I admire him that he can do the job he does. A number of my cousins are policemen or prison warders, and I know I couldn't do their job. They are better men than me........... Alas if you snapped me in two you'd find the word soldier stamped through the middle, and in many ways I have the simple black and white soldiers view of the world.

Ozzy :-/

[ozzy72]

I think Hagar has highlighted the difficulty with the 'Book of Standard Crimes and Punishments' issue, Oz.
There are just simply no two crimes exactly alike.
Don't mistake me for a 'bleeding heart'. I have been a victim of crime as have members of my immediate family. I have been have been shot at, and had to shoot back.
With regard to the recent topic concerning molestation, my daughter was molested at age 10, by my ex wife's live-in lover (I took my 3 kids from her at that point and raised them myself). Oh incidentally, he is dead (by his own hand it would seem).
Anyway, as I was saying, and as Hagar has mentioned, there are mitigating circumstances sometimes. I know here, and probably everywhere else, it seems that mitigating ciorcumstances apply to every single illegal act committed. There is always some hard luck story being used to some how justify a terrible act.
But the fact remains that there are sometimes genuine circumstances which need to be taken into account in order to "judge" ang "punish" a person in a way that suits the whole circumstance.
As for people being guilty if there is enough evidence. Who decides if there is enough evidence? Who decides if that evidence is genuine or 'planted' or 'tainted' etc? Who does a 'truly innocent person' go to if it is decided that there is 'enough' evidence, and they want to challenge the validity of it?
The answer, of course, is a Jury. We can't do without that. We would be going back to medieval times if we were to consider conviction without trial.

Anyway, it's been said a million times (I think 'Dirty Harry' even said it), "Until someone comes up with something better, that works, we'll just have to do the best we can with the systyem we've got".  ;D

[Oz]

Brensec

I think now that maybe this 'code' would could be used more appropriately at the end of cases to help ensure that a criminal gets a reasonable amount of jail time. Its incredible how little time some murderers get these days. All because of a judges/juries inability to realize the danger that a killer may prove to society after they are released. Now taht i think about it this 'standard' maybe shouldnt be used to determine the result of a case. Again, i understand that each case is different but as measure 11 law it should cover listed forms of crime. It may not be used in some types of crimes but it should do something with the big ones.

[ozzy72]

Oz,

I do agree with the concept that there should be some kind of 'standardization' as far as sentencing is concerned.
It seems (just from these posts) that the situation is the same all over the world (at least western world) where there are ridiculously short sentences being given for 'horrific' crimes, while someone who has committed a 'lesser' offense is having the book thrown at them.

This (at least here anyway) is a very common occurence and has been a topic of controversy for a long time. The problem is that it's up to the judges themselves to get together (or be forced together) to come up with some kind of 'system' whereby there is at least a degree of 'sense' to made of the sentences they hand down.

It hasn't happened hear yet. It seems almost every day there is another sentence handed down that causes a cry of indignation from the general public.

What was that 'Measure 11' that's been mentioned?  ;D

[Oz]

click the link to find out  ;) Almost the same as what im bringin up here

[ozzy72]

Its interesting to see your observation about punishments Brensec, I know in Britain that women convicted of petty crimes like shoplifting will get more jail time than a man convicted of manslaughter!
In fact women offenders tend to get far longer sentences than their male counterparts, but on the whole theirs are non-violent crimes... Weird huh?

Ozzy

[Hagar]

In fact women offenders tend to get far longer sentences than their male counterparts, but on the whole theirs are non-violent crimes... Weird huh?

Ozzy

Being the confirmed old cynic I am, I suggest this is due to women's prisons having more room. It was seriously suggested by our government that burglary no longer be treated as a serious, imprisonable offence. This was purely due to severe shortage of prison space. If things carry on as they are there will be nowhere to put them soon. It was only due to public outcry that this crazy idea was dropped.  ::)

[MattNW]

[quote]Why not make a 'Book of Criminal Sentences' where you would look up the number of years a criminal is to be imprisoned depending on a crime. I think its ludicrous to give a killer below 10 years of jail time.